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Another Steamer

EzzyT
EzzyT Member Posts: 1,220
We ripped out this poorly piped and poorly serviced oil fired steamer.
We installed a Peerless 63-03 with a 3” drop header, our standard water seal, demineralized water filter and upgraded the main venting.
Thanks to Clammy for helping us out on this one.
PrecaudIronmanCanuckerSuperTech

Comments

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 4,185
    Beautiful of course. Was the old Peerless rotted/leaking or was this pre-emptive? Do you know its age? Old one looked oversized too?
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,113
    @EzzyT

    Nice Job!1 Why did you take down the guys wall LOL

    At least the original boiler was piped right in the sense of boiler, steam supplies, and equalizer. The header was too small and the piping ugly
    ethicalpaul
  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,220
    @ethicalpaul thanks. The old one was oversized and had some leaks on it on the exterior but one once we cut it out we found the wet leg on the boiler was partially clogged. The boiler was about 15 years old.

    @EBEBRATT-Ed thanks. Yeah with out the removable bifold louver doors it wouldn’t been impossible to work in that tight area.
    ethicalpaul
  • BillyO
    BillyO Member Posts: 276
    yummy job ezzy
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,380
    The piping is really a work of art, it may cost a few bucks more to do it right but it will pay in fuel savings.

    The folks in NJ are lucky to have installers of your caliber available.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    SuperTech
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,969
    Oh oil...I miss you.
    Beautiful again @EzzyT
    steve
  • Hap_Hazzard
    Hap_Hazzard Member Posts: 2,787
    EzzyT said:

    @ethicalpaul thanks. The old one was oversized and had some leaks on it on the exterior but one once we cut it out we found the wet leg on the boiler was partially clogged. The boiler was about 15 years old.

    Interesting. My old Peerless was clogged with sediment there too. I cleaned it all out when I repiped the boiler and put a blow-down valve on it so I can blast everything out of there once a year.
    Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 10,281
    Looks very good, I like the way you cleaned up the piping by stacking most of it above the boiler in a tight foot print.

    Is that a NG pressure test port on the top of the gas supply stop?
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 4,185
    May I ask: what exactly is a "wet leg?" I have searched to try to find a definition but I haven't found one yet.

    It seems to be a part of some boilers. There are "wet leg" and "wet base" boilers?

    I have been able to determine (I think) that it is near where the wet return comes back into the boiler?
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,220
    Thank you gentlemen.
    @JUGHNE yes that is a test port on the gas valve.
    @ethicalpaul the wet leg of a boiler is the return side.
    ethicalpaul
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 369
    EzzyT said:

    @ethicalpaul the wet leg of a boiler is the return side.

    That seems to be the place most prone to clog, where cold water feed mingles with hot return.
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
    Hap_Hazzard
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 10,281
    Ezzy, how do you get the plug out for testing without shutting the entire gas system off?
    Should the valve be flipped end for end?
    I realize there is usually an incoming test port on the gas valve, but I usually have one on the gas piping other than the gas valve.

    The only reason I comment about this is that I have a commercial building with 10 furnaces and 2 water heaters. Each unit has a valve like this with the tap on the inlet to the stop on top.
    In my case with about 200' of 2" pipe it is impractical to use the stop test tap. IMO
  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,220
    @JUGHNE we have a gas shut off at the gas meter. We repiped the gas piping for the rest of the existing gas appliances so instead of having 2 separate gas lines going to the meter it just makes more sense to have one large one to handle the entire gas load of the house.
    ethicalpaul
  • Ron Jr._3
    Ron Jr._3 Member Posts: 603
    Beautiful install guys !
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 4,185
    EzzyT said:

    @JUGHNE we have a gas shut off at the gas meter. We repiped the gas piping for the rest of the existing gas appliances so instead of having 2 separate gas lines going to the meter it just makes more sense to have one large one to handle the entire gas load of the house.

    They did this in my tiny house too! One line to the furnace, and another line from the meter for the Stove, Dryer, and Water Heater. Only the Stove remains on that line.
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 10,281
    The whole point of even bringing this up is that it seems to be installed backwards.

    If one wanted to check the gas pressure at that point, you have to go outside to the meter and shut the main off. Then attach your tester, back outside to turn the gas on, get done testing, outside to shut gas off, remove tester and plug.
    Then outside to turn gas back on, bleed and relight pilots etc.

    If the valve was flipped end for end, then you shut it off, attach tester, valve on, get done, valve off and remove tester and plug, valve on and only one small line to bleed.

    Yes, I know you can test gas on the actual gas valve. There are times you may not want to attach there. I can think of a dryer or range type appliance.

    This is a minor point, probably not worth worrying over or even flipping the valve over.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,113
    @JUGHNE

    Low pressure, do it on the fly is what I would do. But I agree downstream is better
  • kenlmad
    kenlmad Member Posts: 53
    Honest questions here, not being critical. Per the mfg's installation manual the PB 63-03 only requires a single 2 inch steam supply. That's what appeared to be there originally from the images. Why not simply go with a single 3 inch supply for the new install/upgrade? What's the benefit of exceeding the manufacture's specified piping to such an extreme? dryer steam? longer lasting boiler? fuel savings? I really want to know, because I have a 3 year old PB 63-04 with a single 3 inch supply in its 3rd heating season and would consider this upgrade to my NBP.

    On the other hand, there is the oft'repeated "if it aint broke ..."

    Thank you.
    ethicalpaulAlan (California Radiant) ForbesPrecaud
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 2,827
    Just a note it’s always a pleasure to spin wrenches along side w Ezzy ,Fred and Dave . For those of us who turn the wrenchs then you know there s nothing nicer then working w a crew who has all there ducts lined up and all the material to do so it makes doing these job extremely easy w no bs . Also they stick to the plan no short cutting if it where so I wouldn’t be spinning w them , I’m not know for taking the short cuts .The type of workmanship and quality is not something that done by everybody it far and few between as there’s many more screwed up installs on steam then any other type of system I believe mainly because it takes a lot of crappy lazy cheap knuckleheading to screw up a steam system and there always seems to be a lot of it going around . As for the boiler riser I always chaulk it up to the manafactures fighting for the knuckleheads if they said you could do it in 1/2 pipe those boilers would fly off the shelves ,there’s reasons why 2 riser are used and why full sized riser and over sized headers are also used and that’s all to produce dry steam really dry steam . Dry steam a lot of times corrects what is thought to be venting ,distribution and spiting vents all of these issues are 98% of the time related to bad boiler piping so why not spend the money pipe it right and take those possible issues outta the equation . Like Ezzy I also see it all the time some will re do others will live with it till it blows up and or state there moving ( personally love that line love it) then get hot air and be either uncomfortable or cold one of the same . I ve been spinning and installing close to 35 years or more and I will say and post everytime that Ezzy and boys are true craftsman and really nice guys to boot ,but just remember when working w pro there’s no stopping till the heat is on and the job is clean that’s what pros do peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    SuperTechBobCethicalpaulkenlmad
  • Hap_Hazzard
    Hap_Hazzard Member Posts: 2,787
    kenlmad said:

    Honest questions here, not being critical. Per the mfg's installation manual the PB 63-03 only requires a single 2 inch steam supply. That's what appeared to be there originally from the images. Why not simply go with a single 3 inch supply for the new install/upgrade? What's the benefit of exceeding the manufacture's specified piping to such an extreme? dryer steam? longer lasting boiler? fuel savings? I really want to know, because I have a 3 year old PB 63-04 with a single 3 inch supply in its 3rd heating season and would consider this upgrade to my NBP.

    On the other hand, there is the oft'repeated "if it aint broke ..."

    Thank you.

    I keep wondering about this too. When I repiped my G-561 (similar to the now discontinued 61-05), I used two 2" risers and a 3" drop header. The OEM specified only one 2" riser, so I thought this was generous, but now I'm looking ahead to replacing the boiler with a 63-04 someday, and wondering if I can keep my piping or if I need to upgrade it.

    I really hope I don't have to, because that would mean replacing essentially all of the work I did, and aside from a few of the 3" nipples, I wouldn't be able to reuse much of the materials. Also, if I need to buy a lot of 2½" or larger pipe, I'll have to order everything because Home Depot doesn't sell anything bigger than 2", and my biggest threading die is 2", so I'd need to order nipples in the exact sizes I need to use, which is pretty tricky, not to mention expensive.

    The 63-04 IOM says only a single 2½" or 2 2" supply risers are required, but those are the minimum requirements. When I see people who I know are a lot smarter than me putting 2 3" risers on three-section boilers, I start to worry that it might not be enough.
    Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 4,185
    If someone could show me a boiler piped per manufacturer specs that can't make dry steam, I'd like to see it.
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
    Precaud
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,882

    If someone could show me a boiler piped per manufacturer specs that can't make dry steam, I'd like to see it.

    It would be interesting to see each boiler piped to the minimum recommended and see how it performs.

    I run my EG-40 3/4 up the gauge glass (1/2 way is recommended) and it still produces dry steam with two 2" risers into a 3" drop header.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 2,827
    I will say first hand having installed with other and on my own that on peerless 63 03 I have done single and double riser and the best I can come up w it depends . When riser height is a issue then double w a drop and when height is no issue and I can get a riser at 30 inches out of the boiler I feel very confident that it will be dry but this is only w o3 anything bigger gets both w a drop if needed . For myself I look at the whole system and make that decision based on that and on getting that exiting velocity below 15 FPS The type of system is also taken into account 2 pipe vapor system weather water seal traps or orifice valves or fixed orifices System is comparison to a large 1 pipe pushing the limits of a single pipe or a standard small single pipe ,they all need dry steam but some systems are way more forgiving while other suffering w carry over and wet steam well they will never perform as they should and always they lack proper near boiler piping and usually it never improves until it’s redone . On the bigger downside wet steam doesn’t move as much heat combined w un insulated mains u have potential for grooving of your mains and then leaks at fittings . In closing there is only undersized header that have issues and by oversizing it may bring costs up but it makes wondering about the quality of steam your boiler produces a non issue and exiting velocities carry over is Nil . Plus no one to pay to redo there nbp so why not do it once do it right and be done . Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    ethicalpaul
  • Hap_Hazzard
    Hap_Hazzard Member Posts: 2,787
    Yeah, I kinda thought I did it right once already. I guess the best thing would be to use the existing piping and see how it works. I can always repipe if I need to, but there's no sense spending all that money (on top of buying a new boiler) unless I really need to.
    Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24