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Triangle tube prestige solo failure to ignite error

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CBRob
CBRob Member Posts: 273
I'm doing some troubleshooting on a triangle tube prestige.
It's going through five attempts to ignite and then getting an error.
I can see a strong blue flame but the boiler still thinks it is not fired
I can eventually get it to start and run for a while, but multiple times a day will go through five failures and shut down.
Is it the flu gas sensor that detects whether or not it has ignited?
I was just about to inspect the burner, there are two small nuts that hold on the burner and blower assembly at the top of the heat exchanger. One of them the stud must be broken off cuz it just kind of wiggles around. I haven't take the other one off yet, not sure if I even should at this point. If it snaps too this house will be without heat until the new parts show up.
I'll try to snap some pics here in a few.
Has anybody encountered this situation before?

Comments

  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
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    looks like the broken stud is a regular problem..
    Does this require a new HE to repair?
    https://www.triangletube.com/getmedia/7cf46234-bdef-4ff0-ab6e-6c4664763f1a/Warranty-Requirements-Boilers.pdf
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
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    Talked to the service department. One broken little stud means it's time for a heat exchanger replacement.
    It's probably been four or five years since that boiler was serviced, and I bet that's when that stud was broken off.
    Kind of weird that there's only two, so one broken one and one functioning one.
    Just checked on supply house, looks like a new heat exchanger is about 1600 bucks.
    12 year old boiler...
    What would you suggest to a homeowner? Drop a couple grand into a replacement heat exchanger or spend more and replace the whole thing.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,397
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    It could be any number of things, but if it's igniting every time, I'd clean or replace the flame rod and make sure you have solid ground all the way from the boiler to the electric panel.

    You don't disassembled the heat exchanger to remove the flame rod. Just two nuts hold it in.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    rick in AlaskaHgold4423
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
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    > @Ironman said:
    > It could be any number of things, but if it's igniting every time, I'd clean or replace the flame rod and make sure you have solid ground all the way from the boiler to the electric panel.
    >
    > You don't disassembled the heat exchanger to remove the flame rod. Just two nuts hold it in.

    one of those nuts is already broken,
    So I'm afraid to try to remove the other one unless I'm ready to replace the heat exchanger.
    I got a feeling it's about to snap off.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,397
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    I've never had the studs snap on the flame rod.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
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    Iron,
    OK. I was confused as to what is the flame rod
    I think it is the igniter and flame sensor both on a TT boiler.
    I can pull that and clean it.
    Hgold4423
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,397
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    Which stud were you trying to remove?

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
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    The twisted off stud holds the burner plate to the heat exchanger. It's just to the left of where the igniter flame sensor is.
    You can just make out the spark plug cap looking thing in this picture.
    There are only two of these studs holding the burner plate onto the heat exchanger, the left one is busted and the right one is still intact.
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
    edited January 2020
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    Here is a picture of the bolt that is snapped from one of the triangle tube warranty bulletins.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,397
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    That nut holds the burner plate down. It not necessary for removing the ignitor assembly. Look closely at the parts breakdown.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    CBRobHgold4423
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
    edited January 2020
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    I will go ahead and clean and tighten all the ground contacts.
    thats an easy one.

    And pull and clean the igniter is as well.


    thanks for the help
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,397
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    I don't see why that stud can't be extracted with an easy out. You may wanna wait til warm weather to try.

    If you can't get it out, I'd remove the heat exchanger and take it to a machine shop.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • DZoro
    DZoro Member Posts: 1,048
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    Have seen that before. The white you see is the heat/flame exiting the H/E. It just gets worse from there, I have found the entire insides burnt up. Posted something on it a couple years ago on one of the units. Strongly suggest new H/E or boiler. Make sure they keep the cover on that boiler. I was completely surprised to find a roached out boiler upon doing a maintenance call. Had they removed the cover, guarantee the house would have been gone. The ground wire was burnt to nothing and it was still operating.... crazy
    D
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,605
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    The broken studs is a pretty common issue with that heat exchanger. It was either a bad weld or it was over torqued at the factory. I have seen quite a few of them on boilers that were never disassembled. Triangle tube should replace it for free.

    The other issue sounds like a bad flame rod. I haven't had much cleaning them on the Triangle Tube. They are simple to replace, some models require a stubby or right-angle adaptor and a torx tip.

    You can check the milliamp signal on the main display on the trimax models. The older models take a bit more work.

    It sounds like you see a lot of triangle tube boilers. It would be a good idea to keep some parts on hand. The flame rods and boiler sensors are the most common to fail.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    DZoroCBRob
  • get1moore
    get1moore Member Posts: 5
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    I have a Triangle tube Prestige Solo 210 which I purchased and installed myself because I couldn't get a heating company to give me a bid in my area of southwestern New York state. It's about a year old but has been doing this about a month after I install it. I've been having a problem with it very sporadically, where it sounds like a gun going off out the exhaust (big bang). There are no errors on the system and it does it so sporadically. I would think that it's the igniter but where its igniting good 90% of the time, I can't see that that is the issue. BTW, I did finally get a tech out to look at it and he said that he couldn't find anything wrong with it. Any suggestions?
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
    edited January 2020
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    Fixed 2 of these this afternoon.
    It was a matter bad electrical connection.
    Both need new gaskets under the igniter, and both had broken off studs next to the igniter.
    The escaping heat was toasting the ground wire.
    I'm going to check and see if I can find just a gasket, so far it looks like a proper gasket only comes with a new igniter.
    Check out the improvised gasket in the picture. It's disintegrated as I removed the igniter.
    I guess that was some automotive stuff or something
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
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    It's unfortunate, I think the boiler tech that service these years back and broke off the stud could have called in the warranty. But now they are 12 years old and triangle tube will not back them up
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
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    Regarding the broken off stud, I think it was welded on rather than drilled in. I don't believe it's something I can fix with a machine shop. Looks like a couple of grand to replace the heat exchanger just in parts.
    How much of a concern should I relay this to the homeowners. How serious is it? I don't want to be an alarmist but at the same time I don't want to downplay the dangers of gas and carbon monoxide.
    Triangle tube didn't have any problem saying it was time for a new heat exchanger. They don't want that liability. I don't either
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,605
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    get1moore said:

    I have a Triangle tube Prestige Solo 210 which I purchased and installed myself because I couldn't get a heating company to give me a bid in my area of southwestern New York state. It's about a year old but has been doing this about a month after I install it. I've been having a problem with it very sporadically, where it sounds like a gun going off out the exhaust (big bang). There are no errors on the system and it does it so sporadically. I would think that it's the igniter but where its igniting good 90% of the time, I can't see that that is the issue. BTW, I did finally get a tech out to look at it and he said that he couldn't find anything wrong with it. Any suggestions?

    @get1moore
    This would be better for a new post, otherwise it gets confusing.
    Any new boiler should have a combustion analysis. Did the tech who came out do this?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    DZoroIronmanget1moore
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,605
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    CBRob said:

    Regarding the broken off stud, I think it was welded on rather than drilled in. I don't believe it's something I can fix with a machine shop. Looks like a couple of grand to replace the heat exchanger just in parts.

    How much of a concern should I relay this to the homeowners. How serious is it? I don't want to be an alarmist but at the same time I don't want to downplay the dangers of gas and carbon monoxide.

    Triangle tube didn't have any problem saying it was time for a new heat exchanger. They don't want that liability. I don't either

    Triangle tube should replace it. I would press this issue with them.There were tons of failures with that model and they know it.
    I had a customer that had one that age with a single broken stud right out of the box. Tech support said it was no big deal and they would replace if it got worse. 3 years later two more broke and the hot exhaust melted the wiring. This is a boiler that no one ever touched the studs on. They ended up replacing the entire boiler under the warranty.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    CBRobDZoro
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
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    > @Zman said:
    > (Quote)
    > Triangle tube should replace it. I would press this issue with them.There were tons of failures with that model and they know it.
    > I had a customer that had one that age with a single broken stud right out of the box. Tech support said it was no big deal and they would replace if it got worse. 3 years later two more broke and the hot exhaust melted the wiring. This is a boiler that no one ever touched the studs on. They ended up replacing the entire boiler under the warranty.

    it was the guy in the tech department telling me I was out of luck on the warranty. I will call again tomorrow and speak directly to the warranty department. See if I can pressure them into a replacement.
    Crazy to thank that one simple sheared off bolt can ruin a $1,500 part
    DZoro
  • DZoro
    DZoro Member Posts: 1,048
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    @get1moore agree with @Zman , start another thread, and you will need to call tech support and have combustion and gas pressure numbers available during the call.
    D
    get1moore
  • get1moore
    get1moore Member Posts: 5
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    Thanks guys! I will start a new thread regarding my Triangle tube Prestige Solo 210 sporadic bang noise problem.
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,774
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    I have had asme weld shop tig the bolts back on before, kind of a hassle but works. Depending on jurisdiction, it may or may not be allowed or need a permit. Our jurisdiction did not classify it as true vessel repair so did not require asme weld permit or inspect. surface tig. Bolts will never break now. I had talked to Triangle when they originally started having this problem with 399s, the bolts literally would pop off from stress movement. The issue at the factory was I think they were friction welding bolts on and just not getting enough burn in. Just my .02 worth.
    Good Luck
    T
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
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    Update on this..
    the gasket at the top of the heat exchanger finally went and the heat that escaped melted everything up there
    Looked ugly...
    I'll get some pics next time
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
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    DZoro said:

    Have seen that before. The white you see is the heat/flame exiting the H/E. It just gets worse from there, I have found the entire insides burnt up. Posted something on it a couple years ago on one of the units. Strongly suggest new H/E or boiler. Make sure they keep the cover on that boiler. I was completely surprised to find a roached out boiler upon doing a maintenance call. Had they removed the cover, guarantee the house would have been gone. The ground wire was burnt to nothing and it was still operating.... crazy
    D


    That just happened!
    cover was on..
    the ground is burnt in 2 and the igniter is burnt to a little strand of wire.

    I also placed a co detector next to the boiler just in case.
    The client was hoping to wait a little longer before replacing, but no such luck.
  • DZoro
    DZoro Member Posts: 1,048
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    Been there and done that, was it still operating? I couldn't believe that it could run in that condition.
    D
  • BillyO
    BillyO Member Posts: 277
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    google TT instinct boiler, nothing bad terrible reviews. Just saying
    CBRob
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
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    > @DZoro said:
    > Been there and done that, was it still operating? I couldn't believe that it could run in that condition.
    > D


    It was shut down with a U code.

    But it must have burnt for a while.
    I'll get pics if I can.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,605
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    Triangle Tube used to dominate the Colorado market. The had Rick Mayo doing trainings in Denver and they used just replace defective heat exchangers without all the nonsense. A few years back they restructured, they discontinued trainings and started getting picky about warranties.
    Lochinvar quickly filled the void and is the mod con of choice. Shamrock sales does training's all over the state and their support is awesome.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    BillyOCBRob
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
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    Good to know.
    Might make the change.
    Are you having good results with them in summit county?
    For residential in the 150k btu range, what models should I start researching?
    BillyO
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,605
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    They have a test facility at 9,600' in Breckenridge which gives them the most accurate altitude deration in the business.They run very well at altitude.
    The WHB series is my favorite. The WHB155 with 10-1 turndown would be about right.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    CBRob
  • CBRob
    CBRob Member Posts: 273
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    I'll start reading up on that right now.
    Looking forward to learning more about these, and working with shamrock.
    Thanks for the suggestion
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,205
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    > @BillyO said:
    > google TT instinct boiler, nothing bad terrible reviews. Just saying

    Sounds like it should be an extinct boiler....
    BillyO