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My new partially installed MST396 - please critique

JimVT
JimVT Member Posts: 12
edited December 2019 in Strictly Steam
All I can say is that I thought he understood how to install a wrap-around header.

Any comments I'll share with the installer and the company where he works, thanks.

Edited initial post to add photos:

Photo above added for @acwagner


Photo above showing end of main with left wet return and in background end of main with right wet return.


Two photos above added for @JStar with explanation that left wet return wasn't markedly changed in height, no where to go and the other was lowered fourteen inches so it wouldn't become a dry return. Should we try it or ask to raise the boiler and if so, how much?

Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 18,907
    Should work OK
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Hap_Hazzard
    Hap_Hazzard Member Posts: 2,755
    Considering where everything had to end up, that's about the best solution. The only thing I would have done different is to put the union on the main riser instead of in the header, but that's just my preference. (If it were my own boiler I would have included king valves too.)
    Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • JimVT
    JimVT Member Posts: 12
    Thanks @Jamie Hall & @Hap_Hazzard, the king valves were requested as well as three ball valves in Hartford loop and mud leg but only two have been installed. I replaced the wet returns myself, adding boiler drain valves and full-port ball valves in the dry returns above them.
    Hap_Hazzard
  • JStar
    JStar Member Posts: 2,752
    I'm curious to know if those returns will hammer since they're higher than the Hartford loop connection.
  • Hap_Hazzard
    Hap_Hazzard Member Posts: 2,755
    > @JStar said:
    > I'm curious to know if those returns will hammer since they're higher than the Hartford loop connection.

    I didn’t even notice that. You’re probably right. It would have been better to run dry returns.
    Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • acwagner
    acwagner Member Posts: 505
    They should have reduced down to the equalizer at an elbow. It looks like they have a reducer coupling after the two 45's, but it's hard to tell from the photo.
    Burnham IN5PVNI Boiler, Single Pipe with 290 EDR
    18 Ounce per Square Inch Gauge
    Time Delay Relay in Series with Thermostat
    Operating Pressure 0.3-0.5 Ounce per Square Inch

  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 2,917
    I don't like the union on the header or the reducing coupling on the equalizer but neither are likely to create a significant problem,
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, Master Plumber for Consulting Work
    Or for plumbing in NYC or in NJ.

    Or take his class.
    ethicalpaul
  • JimVT
    JimVT Member Posts: 12
    edited December 2019
    Just before an early Christmas dinner I added three photos and comment to original posting. Merry Christmas to everyone and thank you for your comments.

    It does look better than when I saw it Monday night, then it had at least four more fittings below the reducer or an earlier version that had a bull-headed tee where the reducing elbow should be and that was the single riser connecting to both mains. That version could be used in a diagram on what NOT to do for another version of Dan Holohan's TLAOSH! It certainly was not the wrap-around header I thought I described to the installer!
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,750
    edited December 2019
    I would request the pigtail be changed so you could remove the control with ease. There might not be clearance to unscrew the control. And removing the pigtail will require the LWCO to be removed.

    The pigtail is probably screwed into a bushing in the boiler.
    IIWM, I would remove the bushing, install a brass nipple, tee and plug on the end. Then a riser up with the vertical brass pigtail so the control and pigtail could be unscrewed.
    Could add a 1/4" tee below the control for 0-5 PSI gauge also.

    Nice tall drop header should help a lot.

    JStar, is this a candidate for a false water line? Or am I thinking backwards?

    If so, it would be easier than raising the boiler.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,329
    JUGHNE said:

    ......JStar, is this a candidate for a false water line? Or am I thinking backwards?

    If so, it would be easier than raising the boiler.

    A Gifford loop would work too, and be simpler to install.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • JimVT
    JimVT Member Posts: 12
    edited December 2019
    Steamhead said:

    JUGHNE said:

    ......JStar, is this a candidate for a false water line? Or am I thinking backwards?

    If so, it would be easier than raising the boiler.

    A Gifford loop would work too, and be simpler to install.
    They'd need to disconnect some piping but the megasteams have "Spanner bar w/adjustable legs" for up to 7/8" adjustment, if enough?

    I already asked about Gifford and was told "NO, they will not install one!"
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,750
    edited December 2019
    Can't imagine messing with that much large pipe for 7/8".

    Did they check the height of the water line of the old boiler?

    How about a skim tapping?

    You still have your check book in your pocket, that is often the only leverage.
  • JimVT
    JimVT Member Posts: 12
    edited December 2019
    JUGHNE said:

    Can't imagine messing with that much large pipe for 7/8".

    Did they check the height of the water line of the old boiler?

    How about a skim tapping?

    You still have your check book in your pocket, that is often the only leverage.

    Don't know if we have a problem yet but offered that as a way to raise the boiler.

    The old boiler was scrapped months ago but NWL was 47.5" inches up from bottom of pit and using a water level I marked that with black tape and white labels at the ends of the mains and two other places in the cellar. The right wet return was lowered fourteen inches because it was right at the old water line and installers placed boiler on four inch solid concrete blocks so new water line is about 35" from bottom of pit.

    Skim tapping such as it is, I got installer to install short nipple with plugged 90.

    Yes. 70% left to pay upon installation and will be using credit card.
  • JStar
    JStar Member Posts: 2,752
    > @Steamhead said:
    > (Quote)
    > A Gifford loop would work too, and be simpler to install.

    Totally. After all, a Gifford loop is a false water line.
  • JimVT
    JimVT Member Posts: 12
    JStar said:

    > @Steamhead said:

    > (Quote)

    > A Gifford loop would work too, and be simpler to install.



    Totally. After all, a Gifford loop is a false water line.

    I already asked about a Gifford loop and was told "No, they won't install one!" I think perhaps they believe only the Hartford loop meets the manufacturer's standard since it is the only one mentioned in the MegaSteam I&O manual.
  • Then if it bangs when running, they can raise the boiler up so the waterline height is correct in relation to that return.--NBC
    JimVT
  • JimVT
    JimVT Member Posts: 12

    Then if it bangs when running, they can raise the boiler up so the waterline height is correct in relation to that return.--NBC

    Thank you for stating this so well since I will show them all these comments and thank you for your postings about equalized reservoir tanks since I've requested the tees each with a plug in case I need one and this is specified in the contract.