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Weil-McLain EG Firing issue

Dave0176
Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,177
Back in June I installed a WM EG40 replacement steam boiler. Upon finishing the job as I always do I clocked the gas meter as part of my testing. Gas in to the gas valve was 6.90” and manifold pressure was adjusted to 3.5” as per manufacture. This particular boiler is rated at 125,000 BTU input. Upon clocking the gas meter I was getting around 90-95,000 BTU input. I ended up replacing 3 gas valves before I decided it wasn’t the gas valve. The next day I contacted my supply house owner and we talked about it a bit and he sent the info off to WM. I heard back a few days later and was told call the gas company to test the meter? Meter tested fine.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago I installed another EG40 and upon firing I knew something wasn’t right, I checked my pressures then clocked the gas meter, same issue 90-95,000 BTU. Contacted supply house again and offered to give me a manifold and orfices off an older model boiler to see if the orfices were sized wrong.

So today I went back to do the first cleaning and figured I’d try and change that manifold. I pulled the new manifold off and compared the two, most obvious thing is there from different manufacturers one is black with a welded 1/2 pipe attaching to the manifold the older one is chrome with a coupling welded to the manifold to accept a standard 1/2” pipe nipple. Looking inside the two nipples told the whole story, the older one is fully opened 1/2” pipe size, the newer one had a blob of weld partially blocking the inlet to the manifold. The opening was approximately 1/4” hole.

Once I installed the older manifold and adjusted the gas valve the meter clocked perfect. Sucks I had to do all the trouble shooting on my dime, and now have to go back to another job to correct this issue. However this all still needs to be brought up to Weil-McLain, be now they have to try to figure how many boilers went out with that faulty manifold. I suppose most if not all the other contractors do not even test their equipment upon initialization. Unbelievable.

If anyone installed a Weil-McLain EG in the last six months I’d check it and clock the meter to be sure.
DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
ethicalpaul

Comments

  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,290
    @Dave0176 I would try and get reimbursed from Weil Mclain
    DZoroethicalpaul
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 1,929
    > @EzzyT said:
    > @Dave0176 I would try and get reimbursed from Weil Mclain

    Good luck on that. Of course he should get full compensation plus a reward for bringing this to Weil Mclain's attention.
    DZorokcopp
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,177
    EzzyT said:

    @Dave0176 I would try and get reimbursed from Weil Mclain

    I doubt it Ezz just wondering how many others are out there that don’t even know. We all know most grossly oversize their replacements so their getting benefited for this error lol
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,723
    @Dave0176 , is the faulty manifold the black one with the nipple welded on or the chrome one with the coupling welded on?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,177
    Steamhead said:

    @Dave0176 , is the faulty manifold the black one with the nipple welded on or the chrome one with the coupling welded on?

    Painted black one is the newer.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
  • ScottSecor
    ScottSecor Member Posts: 841
    Dave,
    Your making me nervous. We've installed many W/M EG boilers over the years not sure we've run into this problem yet. Thank you for sharing the information, may help a lot of us in the future.

    I find it troubling that YOU have to to check the input of a natural draft residential boiler! Please tell me that you don't have to check the input on residential gas water heaters too...

    I think W/M may do something for you. They are (at least used to be) a stand up company.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,451
    edited November 2019
    > @Dave0176 said:
    > (Quote)
    > Painted black one is the newer.

    That's interesting.
    Have they changed before?

    I swear my EG-45 manifold from 2011 was smooth black but the EG-40 replacement was rougher and just silver galvanized. I bought that a few years but don't remember exactly when. 2015 maybe? But who knows how long it was on a shelf.

    Here's a picture of them.

    The black one came with the boiler. The silver was bought from Supplyhouse.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,177

    Dave,
    Your making me nervous. We've installed many W/M EG boilers over the years not sure we've run into this problem yet. Thank you for sharing the information, may help a lot of us in the future.

    I find it troubling that YOU have to to check the input of a natural draft residential boiler! Please tell me that you don't have to check the input on residential gas water heaters too...

    I think W/M may do something for you. They are (at least used to be) a stand up company.

    Scott I don’t think you have to worry I’ve installed 100s of WM EGs over the years too, however these last few gave me trouble.

    As far as checking input we always do as part of the initialization process, which includes verifying gas pressures, clocking input, and a combustion analysis. The old adage is, if you ain’t testing your guessing.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
    ethicalpaul
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,177
    ChrisJ said:

    > @Dave0176 said:

    > (Quote)

    > Painted black one is the newer.



    That's interesting.

    Have they changed before?



    I swear my EG-45 manifold from 2011 was smooth black but the EG-40 replacement was rougher and just silver galvanized. I bought that a few years but don't remember exactly when. 2015 maybe? But who knows how long it was on a shelf.



    Here's a picture of them.



    The black one came with the boiler. The silver was bought from Supplyhouse.

    Chris the newer style black ones are a bit different. I’ll take a pic tomorrow.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
    ChrisJ
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,177

    Here’s the boiler with the older styled chrome manifold installed.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
  • retiredguy
    retiredguy Member Posts: 881
    edited November 2019
    Did you check the size of the orfices of both manifolds to see if there was a different size orfice supplied. Many years ago, a boiler of that design, and I can't remember the mfg name, utilized a manifold pressure of 4" instead of the normal 3.5". I argued with their engineering department until the conversation got nasty. They told me to "go away" and hung up the phone.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,744
    > @ChrisJ said:
    > > @Dave0176 said:
    > > (Quote)
    > > Painted black one is the newer.
    >
    > That's interesting.
    > Have they changed before?
    >
    > I swear my EG-45 manifold from 2011 was smooth black but the EG-40 replacement was rougher and just silver galvanized. I bought that a few years but don't remember exactly when. 2015 maybe? But who knows how long it was on a shelf.
    >
    > Here's a picture of them.
    >
    > The black one came with the boiler. The silver was bought from Supplyhouse.
    >

    One has 5 burner bungs, one has 4. For the same boiler?
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,451
    > @HVACNUT said:
    > > @ChrisJ said:
    > > > @Dave0176 said:
    > > > (Quote)
    > > > Painted black one is the newer.
    > >
    > > That's interesting.
    > > Have they changed before?
    > >
    > > I swear my EG-45 manifold from 2011 was smooth black but the EG-40 replacement was rougher and just silver galvanized. I bought that a few years but don't remember exactly when. 2015 maybe? But who knows how long it was on a shelf.
    > >
    > > Here's a picture of them.
    > >
    > > The black one came with the boiler. The silver was bought from Supplyhouse.
    > >
    >
    > One has 5 burner bungs, one has 4. For the same boiler?

    Read what I typed my friend.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,744
    > @ChrisJ said:
    > > @HVACNUT said:
    > > > @ChrisJ said:
    > > > > @Dave0176 said:
    > > > > (Quote)
    > > > > Painted black one is the newer.
    > > >
    > > > That's interesting.
    > > > Have they changed before?
    > > >
    > > > I swear my EG-45 manifold from 2011 was smooth black but the EG-40 replacement was rougher and just silver galvanized. I bought that a few years but don't remember exactly when. 2015 maybe? But who knows how long it was on a shelf.
    > > >
    > > > Here's a picture of them.
    > > >
    > > > The black one came with the boiler. The silver was bought from Supplyhouse.
    > > >
    > >
    > > One has 5 burner bungs, one has 4. For the same boiler?
    >
    > Read what I typed my friend.

    Cut me some slack. EG-45, EG-40, 2015, I think. Elf on a shelf? I'm still on my first cup.
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,177

    Did you check the size of the orfices of both manifolds to see if there was a different size orfice supplied. Many years ago, a boiler of that design, and I can't remember the mfg name, utilized a manifold pressure of 4" instead of the normal 3.5". I argued with their engineering department until the conversation got nasty. They told me to "go away" and hung up the phone.

    Same orfice 2.45mm opening.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,451
    > @HVACNUT said:
    > > @ChrisJ said:
    > > > @HVACNUT said:
    > > > > @ChrisJ said:
    > > > > > @Dave0176 said:
    > > > > > (Quote)
    > > > > > Painted black one is the newer.
    > > > >
    > > > > That's interesting.
    > > > > Have they changed before?
    > > > >
    > > > > I swear my EG-45 manifold from 2011 was smooth black but the EG-40 replacement was rougher and just silver galvanized. I bought that a few years but don't remember exactly when. 2015 maybe? But who knows how long it was on a shelf.
    > > > >
    > > > > Here's a picture of them.
    > > > >
    > > > > The black one came with the boiler. The silver was bought from Supplyhouse.
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > One has 5 burner bungs, one has 4. For the same boiler?
    > >
    > > Read what I typed my friend.
    >
    > Cut me some slack. EG-45, EG-40, 2015, I think. Elf on a shelf? I'm still on my first cup.

    I converted my EG-45 to an EG-40. The only difference is 1 less tube and the draft hood. If course the spacing is different between tubes etc.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,667
    how does that work? dropping 5 to 4 tubes?
    don't the burner tubes line up with cast sections?
    known to beat dead horses
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,451
    > @neilc said:
    > how does that work? dropping 5 to 4 tubes?
    > don't the burner tubes line up with cast sections?

    From 6 to 5 and no they do not.
    They sit under it like a pot on a stove
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment