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Looking for a little advice from experts

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chall2627
chall2627 Member Posts: 5
edited October 2019 in THE MAIN WALL
Looking for a little advice from experts. Thank you in advance!I have a small 2 story home with hydroponic 2 zone heat, baseboard copper tube and fin heat exchanges, natural gas fired, built in the early 1970's.i know, not all that efficient...But i have budget constraints. The first floor recirc pump, a Taco model 110 developed a mech seal leak years ago and the system overpressurized several times. I replaced the relief valve, supply water regulator valve and the mechanical seals in the Taco 110 back in 2011. was good for a couple years but last yea the pump starting leaking again, system pressurizing when feed isolation valve was left open. I travel a lot for work so , yes I know I should have taken care of this earlier, but life is what it is :( I bought a new expansion tank, P/T gauge and a Taco 007 pump to replace that model 110 dinosaur. I tried to replace the pump, the 007 is smaller but the system flanges are slightly different ( old system flanges have grooves but the new ones are flat at the mating surface. Also, the new motor now hits the old P/T gauge (90 degree style), even though I rotated the body of the pump (yes, the capacitor box is on the side, not down.) I did buy a straight type P/T gauge but the old one will not come out. i understand the gauge fitting is brass and will probably break before the boiler case does, but how much torque can I safely use to get the old gauge out? i do not want to damage the boiler body, too much work to helicoil or weld that at the moment....Would it be better to just add wire length and turn the new pump 180 degrees and leave the old gauge in? Second part is , can I get a good seal with the new 007 pump, new gaskets and the old model 110 type system flanges?
i am somewhat handy, but time is running short before the next work trip! I thank you all for reading this!

Comments

  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,090
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    Your idea to make the wire longer is the best thing to do.
    The flanges should be fine from old to new. However you will want to use full face flange gaskets wrather then the ones that come with the circulator. They provide better coverage when using the old flanges with the new circulator.
    If you decide to change the gauge, spray some PB Blast or other penetrating liquid on the threads a few times or, over a few days if you can. also using a longer wrench will give you needed leverage lessening the chance of damaging it when removing.
    chall2627
  • chall2627
    chall2627 Member Posts: 5
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    The third question is this, sorry... The expansion tank directions say it must be installed vertically, the old on is horizontal, taps into a Thrush Flow control valve body. i looked into it, apparently the Thrush valve was designed for an old school expansion tank with no diaphragm. i can see how that would have been acceptible, but how critical is it that a newer diaphragm tank be installed vertically? i think i understand why the diaphragm tank should be installed vertically for long term use (diaphragm movement and leak indicator functionality), but will it last until next summer horizontally?
  • chall2627
    chall2627 Member Posts: 5
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    Intplm,
    When you say "full face flanges, I think you mean the flat ones, the ones with no groove for the Oring? Or are there special GASKETS you are referrring to? The pump casing itself has the grooved type but I did buy the flat system (piping) flanges in case i needed them, are these what you are referring to? Regarding the gauge, I have tried WD-40 and am using 1 foot long 1/2 "wrench, I am putting probably close to 50 ft/lbs on it with no movement, i am thinking i better leave it alone...
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,675
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    The expansion tank -- if it's the newer bladder type -- really doesn't care which way up it is. However, it must be connected directly to the system, upstream of the pump inlet, to function properly. It should not be connected through that Thrush valve.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,607
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    I think your should leave the gauge until next summer just in case something breaks. Do you have a picture of the flanges you are mating the Taco to?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    chall2627
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,090
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    chall2627 said:

    Intplm,
    When you say "full face flanges, I think you mean the flat ones, the ones with no groove for the Oring? Or are there special GASKETS you are referrring to? The pump casing itself has the grooved type but I did buy the flat system (piping) flanges in case i needed them, are these what you are referring to? Regarding the gauge, I have tried WD-40 and am using 1 foot long 1/2 "wrench, I am putting probably close to 50 ft/lbs on it with no movement, i am thinking i better leave it alone...

    @chall2627 I agree with @Zman about the gauge. Leave it be till the warm weather is in the near future.

    This is a example of the gaskets I am referring to.




  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 2,835
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    When they say vertical , they want the tank down and wet as to not trap air and induce rust .

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    MikeL_2chall2627
  • chall2627
    chall2627 Member Posts: 5
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    Intplm,
    OK, got it, i have seen those for sale. I am in no way doubting your knowledge, but the instructions that came with the pump specifically " do not use flat gaskets, use the ring type that came with the pump." i do understand directions are written for novices like me, so if your experiences have shown otherwise, it sounds good to me! i did try to loosen the piping flanges to use the new ones, but like the gauge, all the joints are sealed with 1960's era brush on pipe sealant, that old school stuff does not break.... Should I use a gasket sealant with the flat rubber gaskets, like Permatex high temp stuff I have used on many oil pans, engine cooling systems etc? I have attached 3 photos to hopefully clear up the picture.The flange photo shows the old flanges and the green one is the flat style I bought.




  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,090
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    I use the flat full face gaskets universally. Now. You can use the ones that come with the circ. if you prefer. I have used them on new installations with much success. But thats with new circs "and" -new- flanges. Im certain others use the gaskets that are provided with the similar situation you are in.
    Go for it as shown. Clean the old flange. Permatex is not needed but cant hurt.
    Add wire as previously discussed.
    Please post as to what your end results are.
    I'd like to know how things work out.
    SeanBeans
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,849
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    Use the flat gaskets they should be fine. Take the expansion tank off and install a long nipple about 1/2 the diameter of the thank with a 90 deg elbow on one end looking down reinstall the tank.

    You might want to put a hanger on the long nipple on the tank end you can use the perforated pipe strap you can get it at a hardware store or at a big box to support the tank. A shut off valve between the expansion tank and the system is a good idea.
  • chall2627
    chall2627 Member Posts: 5
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    Intplm, you were right, I tried the orings, they leaked without any pressure, put the flat rubber gaskets in, good to go! Thanks! EDEBRATT, I know the tank should be installed vertically and Ideally, not to the Watts check valve but time constraints necessitated a quick fix, I used a couple heavy duty zip ties and parachute cord to support the tank. My problem now is that when I run the new pump, it does not seem to be circulating, it is running, but is making noise that sounds like cavitation and the pipes do not warm up. The upper floor zone pump is quiet when running and it is circulating. there is a cross connect line between the tow pumps, when I open it the upper floor pump is pumping to the lower floor as well. I think the new pump is air bound, despite several attempts to purge it.
    Intplm.