Another Burnham IN bites the dust
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
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I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
Comments
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Beautiful as always. 15 years, quite a hole.
How long do you think this one could last?There was an error rendering this rich post.
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@Dave0176 Won't those scraps of bricks under the block cause issues with combustion?
My EG40 has now lived longer than Two Burnham V8's did in my house just before I bought it. Of course I fixed all of the leaks and I'm running Steamaster, but still.Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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ChrisJ said:
@Dave0176 Won't those scraps of bricks under the block cause issues with combustion?
My EG40 has now lived longer than Two Burnham V8's did in my house just before I bought it. Of course I fixed all of the leaks and I'm running Steamaster, but still.
Never had an issue and I do a combustion analysis on every boiler. Anyway the center is filled on this one
DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......1 -
Sounds familiar. We moved into our northern NJ house last year and discovered this fall that our 9 year old Burnham needs to be replaced. That was a surprise!
In your opinion, would a whole house water filter/conditioner like an aquasana do anything to help lengthen the life our next boiler (which will be a Peerless), or not really?0 -
IIRC in one of Dan's books, he mentioned using a small sacrificial electric water heater to cook the water before adding it to the system.
I wonder if this helps the situation.
Keep in mind this is for a properly working system, no leaks.There was an error rendering this rich post.
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WindyT said:
Sounds familiar. We moved into our northern NJ house last year and discovered this fall that our 9 year old Burnham needs to be replaced. That was a surprise!
In your opinion, would a whole house water filter/conditioner like an aquasana do anything to help lengthen the life our next boiler (which will be a Peerless), or not really?
My recommendation is still 1 to 2 Steamaster pills after ensuring the water is very clean and oil free. When using Steamaster if the water is purple the PH is satisfactory, if the water is blue the PH is too low.STEVEusaPA said:IIRC in one of Dan's books, he mentioned using a small sacrificial electric water heater to cook the water before adding it to the system.
I wonder if this helps the situation.
Keep in mind this is for a properly working system, no leaks.
Unfortunately finding it is still an issue.
https://www.amazon.com/Rectorseal-68732-36-Steamaster-Tablets/dp/B008A3UEO6/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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I see a lot places carry 8 Way which is steam master in liquid form.ChrisJ said:WindyT said:Sounds familiar. We moved into our northern NJ house last year and discovered this fall that our 9 year old Burnham needs to be replaced. That was a surprise!
In your opinion, would a whole house water filter/conditioner like an aquasana do anything to help lengthen the life our next boiler (which will be a Peerless), or not really?
My recommendation is still 1 to 2 Steamaster pills after ensuring the water is very clean and oil free. When using Steamaster if the water is purple the PH is satisfactory, if the water is blue the PH is too low.STEVEusaPA said:IIRC in one of Dan's books, he mentioned using a small sacrificial electric water heater to cook the water before adding it to the system.
I wonder if this helps the situation.
Keep in mind this is for a properly working system, no leaks.
Unfortunately finding it is still an issue.
https://www.amazon.com/Rectorseal-68732-36-Steamaster-Tablets/dp/B008A3UEO6/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......2 -
Hi Steve I’m adding a water meter to monitor the amount of feed water added. This will determine if we have leaks elsewhere in the system.STEVEusaPA said:Beautiful as always. 15 years, quite a hole.
How long do you think this one could last?DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......0 -
@Dave0176 , we see the same with IN boilers here. If we get a new customer with one, we figure on replacing it in a few years.All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
We've been getting a few failed heat exchangers from boilers we installed 8-12 years ago the last couple of years and they're all Burnham. I believe they're being sold with an active anode rod now.
Great job as always, Dave.Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
Consulting & Troubleshooting
Heating in NYC or NJ.
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When I've combustion tested the Independence and the stack temps tend to be quite high, IIRC. Since the sections are rather narrow, the water level drops quite a bit during operation. This, combined with the large steam chest not causing the tops of the sections to get splashed as much with water as boilers like the Dunkirk or Utica with no steam chest, and full pinning running up to the top of the section, probably drive ups the temperature at the tops of the sections. I strongly suspect this is why they rot out so quickly. The old American Standard G- series atmospheric, which I suspect the Independence descended from, has less pinning at the top of the sections. Those boilers often would go 40 to 50 years.To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.0
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I would love to know if there's different iron used in the blocks as well. Comparing a modern boiler to a 1920s Red Flash for example.The Steam Whisperer said:When I've combustion tested the Independence and the stack temps tend to be quite high, IIRC. Since the sections are rather narrow, the water level drops quite a bit during operation. This, combined with the large steam chest not causing the tops of the sections to get splashed as much with water as boilers like the Dunkirk or Utica with no steam chest, and full pinning running up to the top of the section, probably drive ups the temperature at the tops of the sections. I strongly suspect this is why they rot out so quickly. The old American Standard G- series atmospheric, which I suspect the Independence descended from, has less pinning at the top of the sections. Those boilers often would go 40 to 50 years.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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No one worries about this stuff in residential living space? Looking at the SDS makes me pause. I know, nothing but pure air can come out of these systems. Ok, I admit it, I worry too much.Dave0176 said:
I see a lot places carry 8 Way which is steam master in liquid form.ChrisJ said:WindyT said:Sounds familiar. We moved into our northern NJ house last year and discovered this fall that our 9 year old Burnham needs to be replaced. That was a surprise!
In your opinion, would a whole house water filter/conditioner like an aquasana do anything to help lengthen the life our next boiler (which will be a Peerless), or not really?
My recommendation is still 1 to 2 Steamaster pills after ensuring the water is very clean and oil free. When using Steamaster if the water is purple the PH is satisfactory, if the water is blue the PH is too low.STEVEusaPA said:IIRC in one of Dan's books, he mentioned using a small sacrificial electric water heater to cook the water before adding it to the system.
I wonder if this helps the situation.
Keep in mind this is for a properly working system, no leaks.
Unfortunately finding it is still an issue.
https://www.amazon.com/Rectorseal-68732-36-Steamaster-Tablets/dp/B008A3UEO6/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
I recommend "old" water, the more cycles on it the better. New water is the enemy. I focus on keeping that to a bare minimum.1926 1000EDR Mouat 2 pipe vapor system,1957 Bryant Boiler 463,000 BTU input, Natural vacuum operation with single solenoid vent, Custom PLC control0 -
> @PMJ said:
> (Quote)
> No one worries about this stuff in residential living space? Looking at the SDS makes me pause. I know, nothing but pure air can come out of these systems. Ok, I admit it, I worry too much.
>
> I recommend "old" water, the more cycles on it the better. New water is the enemy. I focus on keeping that to a bare minimum.
Again, you haven't used a modern boiler and water is different all over.
The water in my area in a modern boiler destroys it no matter how many cycles is on it. The water in my boiler looked like chocolate milk. Air mixes with the water every cycle so I don't completely buy driving off dissolved o2.
I realize you're also setting up for yet another "keep the air out" argument but you'll have this one alone.Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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> @ChrisJ said:
> > @PMJ said:
> > (Quote)
> > No one worries about this stuff in residential living space? Looking at the SDS makes me pause. I know, nothing but pure air can come out of these systems. Ok, I admit it, I worry too much.
> >
> > I recommend "old" water, the more cycles on it the better. New water is the enemy. I focus on keeping that to a bare minimum.
>
> Again, you haven't used a modern boiler and water is different all over.
>
> The water in my area in a modern boiler destroys it no matter how many cycles is on it. The water in my boiler looked like chocolate milk. Air mixes with the water every cycle so I don't completely buy driving off dissolved o2.
>
> I realize you're also setting up for yet another "keep the air out" argument but you'll have this one alone.
It takes an enormous amount of agitation to get air into water - way more than the gentle flow of condensate back to the boiler. It also requires cool water which is in scarce supply when all this action is happening. I do buy the driving off O2 argument so we differ there a lot.
But I am confused now. Something in your water destroys modern boilers but would not destroy an old one? Then I must ask what it is and why would an older boiler be immune to it? Do you mean that they went and changed the cast iron such that it is incompatible with a lot of the water around the country now? If true that is pretty sad. How could steam heat possibly survive with help like that?
Anyway, what a shame that on top of significantly reduced boiler life expectancy apparently an additional health risk is now required to own a steam system however small that risk is.1926 1000EDR Mouat 2 pipe vapor system,1957 Bryant Boiler 463,000 BTU input, Natural vacuum operation with single solenoid vent, Custom PLC control0 -
Don’t know, I’m assuming it’s the pins as Dan has done articles on in the past. The pins get damn near super heated, all the old school large water content boilers had no pins at all.PMJ said:> @ChrisJ said:
> > @PMJ said:
> > (Quote)
> > No one worries about this stuff in residential living space? Looking at the SDS makes me pause. I know, nothing but pure air can come out of these systems. Ok, I admit it, I worry too much.
> >
> > I recommend "old" water, the more cycles on it the better. New water is the enemy. I focus on keeping that to a bare minimum.
>
> Again, you haven't used a modern boiler and water is different all over.
>
> The water in my area in a modern boiler destroys it no matter how many cycles is on it. The water in my boiler looked like chocolate milk. Air mixes with the water every cycle so I don't completely buy driving off dissolved o2.
>
> I realize you're also setting up for yet another "keep the air out" argument but you'll have this one alone.
It takes an enormous amount of agitation to get air into water - way more than the gentle flow of condensate back to the boiler. It also requires cool water which is in scarce supply when all this action is happening. I do buy the driving off O2 argument so we differ there a lot.
But I am confused now. Something in your water destroys modern boilers but would not destroy an old one? Then I must ask what it is and why would an older boiler be immune to it? Do you mean that they went and changed the cast iron such that it is incompatible with a lot of the water around the country now? If true that is pretty sad. How could steam heat possibly survive with help like that?
Anyway, what a shame that on top of significantly reduced boiler life expectancy apparently an additional health risk is now required to own a steam system however small that risk is.
However I’ve pulled a lot older but modern Weil-McLain EG’s out, a lot installed in 1977-1978 40 years on a modern steam boiler can’t complain.
Mid 90s Weil-McLain’s however seem to suffer short lives as I believe they had some iron casting issues going on.DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......0 -
Couple finale pics.
DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc
https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter
I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......0 -
If the water is so bad, why not rig up a small feed tank and control the water quality. It would be an add on sale to come by every so often and top the tank off with Rhomar factory blended water.gwgillplumbingandheating.com
Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.0 -
> @gerry gill said:
> If the water is so bad, why not rig up a small feed tank and control the water quality. It would be an add on sale to come by every so often and top the tank off with Rhomar factory blended water.
Because I had this really smart guy tell me to use Steamaster tablets and ever since I haven't had any issues.Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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