Over Venting the Mains? Weak heat to 2nd floor. Please reAD.

STEAM DOCTOR

Have you clocked the gas meter? Maybe boiler not making enough steam.

tumbz

@Fred This house was built in 1949. I believe the boiler was sized to support both 1st and 2nd floors, BUTTT, maybe about 20 years ago, there was an extension added to the home with another 3 extra radiators... Not sure how that plays into the equation...

I cannot see any pipping downstairs because i had it FINISHED. Im an idiot, i shouldof used drop ceilings instead but it too late for that now.

All i know that the piping nipple that is upstairs and ssticks out of the flooring uses a 1 inch shut off valve that i changed....

tumbz

@STEAM DOCTOR no i did not. I think it runs okay. No sounds, hissing, banging, its basically silent upstairs, except that i think the thermostsat is in the wrong place messing up the balance.

ChrisJ

> @tumbz said:
> @STEAM DOCTOR no i did not. I think it runs okay. No sounds, hissing, banging, its basically silent upstairs, except that i think the thermostsat is in the wrong place messing up the balance.

The thermostat isn't messing up the balance.
The whole house should be the very close to the same temperature regardless of what the thermostat does. The thermostat could make the whole house too cold or too hot but it would do it the same all over.

Venting is what controls balance. Messing with the thermostat may get you more heat upstairs but it'll also overheat the first floor right now.

tumbz

@ChrisJ so if i use the gorton 4s, you think they will vent SLOW ENOUGH so that more steam goes upstairs first?

ChrisJ

tumbz said:

@ChrisJ so if i use the gorton 4s, you think they will vent SLOW ENOUGH so that more steam goes upstairs first?

4s downstairs, and 6s upstairs.

That's a guess based on what you've said.
If you could tell us the size of the radiators and the size and length of the piping to each one, it would help.

It's a lot of work, but it will pay off in the end.

Or, you can just guess and see what happens and go from there. That'll work too. It's just you may end up swapping some of those 6's for Cs, or 5s etc

John Ruhnke

@tumbz

Why not use the Hoffman 1a? Its adjustable. So you can play with the settings and make it fast or slow. I like this idea better because nobody knows how it is piped. Tumbz house has two system designers, one when the original house was built and one twenty years ago for the addition. My guess is the guy from twenty years ago didn't do his job properly. He oversized the radiators to the addition. He may have repiped some of the mains and distribution piping too to accommodate supporting beams or such for the addition. Its behind the wall and finished ceiling so we don't know what he did. So you are dealing with a bad design and you have to make it work. Twenty years ago they may have insulated the addition but the rest of the house might be uninsulated.

The thermostat is in the addition which was done twenty years ago. It is over heated and over insulated as far as balance goes. The balance could be so far off that venting wont solve the problem alone. So either the thermostat will need to be moved or a radiator or two needs to be completely shut down. Its going to take some experimenting and adjusting to get the balance right.

John Ruhnke

@ChrisJ

Oh I see the Hoffman 1a has to much slop and though its adjustable it isn't accurate enough to do a good job. The gorton does the adjustments better. Got it now. But I still think the problem is caused by really bad overheating in the addition by a real bad balance problem which causes the thermostat to shut off to early. If he completely shuts down some radiators and does a little experimenting first at least it will prove what is wrong. I would do that first.

tumbz

YOU GUys have been SUPER HELPFUL and THANK YOU for ALL THE ADVISE!!!!!

I actually already have the hoffman a1's installed on all the 1st floor rads that came with the house. I completely shut them off, but as you know, and someone else also mentioned, these vavles are kinda flimsy ( if you unscrew the top, youl see that the shutoff knob isnt tight, so if you shut it down, it still leaks a little )

Im going to try the gortons 4 first. Or maybe ill shut down a few rads closer to the thermostat and run a regular cycle.

ILL report back soonnn!!!

THANKSSSSSSSSSSSSS

@ChrisJ
@John Ruhnke
@Fred
@JUGHNE

ChrisJ

John Ruhnke said:

@ChrisJ

Oh I see the Hoffman 1a has to much slop and though its adjustable it isn't accurate enough to do a good job. The gorton does the adjustments better. Got it now. But I still think the problem is caused by really bad overheating in the addition by a real bad balance problem which causes the thermostat to shut off to early. If he completely shuts down some radiators and does a little experimenting first at least it will prove what is wrong. I would do that first.

The slop in the 1A is so bad the only way to actually adjust them is to remove them and blow threw them to see how restricted it is when you're done. I gave up on mine. I also didn't like the click clack they made, and in my situation they often would get a drop of water in the vent orifice that would totally stop my radiator from heating, forever. Until I'd come along and blow into it with a can of air + straw. But I'm thinking that's something unique to my setup and how I'm running it.

Gsmith

If you want a good adjustable radiator vent try the Ventrite #1: https://www.ventritevalve.com/products/1-radiator-vent/

Fred

I have Hoffman 1A's on all of my radiators and have had for the past 25 years. No problem with them but I will say the Ventrite #1 is a much better design and very reliable

ChrisJ

Fred said:

I have Hoffman 1A's on all of my radiators and have had for the past 25 years. No problem with them but I will say the Ventrite #1 is a much better design and very reliable

Fred,

I know you said yours were quiet, but I can't remember. Do the caps fit right on yours? I'm sure at some time they made them correctly, I just don't know when.

Fred

ChrisJ said:

Fred said:

I have Hoffman 1A's on all of my radiators and have had for the past 25 years. No problem with them but I will say the Ventrite #1 is a much better design and very reliable

Fred,

I know you said yours were quiet, but I can't remember. Do the caps fit right on yours? I'm sure at some time they made them correctly, I just don't know when.

Chris, no, the caps on mine are sloppy too. I have to take the screw completely off, center and hold the adjustable ring with one hand and tighten the screw cap back on with the other hand. It's not that difficult but it is cumbersome. The good thing is once you have it adjusted where you want it, you don't have to mess with it anymore.
Mine are quiet but I have seen enough posts about the clacking noise that I probably won't buy new ones. I still have a half dozen of the old style on the shelf but will probably go with the Vent-Rites when I need more.

Alan Welch

You could try turning a couple of vents on the 1st floor radiators upside down to stop them from venting, and see if that helps to balance the 2 levels.

tumbz

GUYS. Im back to update you guys.

I bought VENT RITE #1 air valves for all my first floor radiators, 7 all together. I turned them all to the LOWEST/SLOWEST setting and have fast venting maid o mist D valves on all 3 radiators upstairs.

Now my upstairs HEATS SUPER FAST!!! I am SO HAPPY i fixed this. Now the upstairs radiators gets super hot in about 10 minutes, even before the 1 floor! But this is an easy fix. I am just balancing it by adjusting the dial on the vent rites on the first floor higher a little at a time so they all heat up evenly.

And to think, i almost moved my thermostat or installed danfoss thermostatic radiator valves which are super expensive. HAHA.

I bought these 7 x vent rite #1's on ebay, for only 19 bucks each with free ship. These are so much better than the old hoffman a1s with the flimsy dial which dont even block the vent hole.

THANKS FOR EVERYONE HELP AND SUGGESTIONS!

ethicalpaul

Nice work. You might have a little more success with smaller vents upstairs to slow them rather than opening up the downstairs ones. You can get new orifices for the maid-o-the-mist ones, try some fives or sixes

John Ruhnke

Awesome!! I am glad it worked out. Its all about balance.