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Condensorless AC available in the US?

BrooklynBrownstoner
BrooklynBrownstoner Member Posts: 5
edited August 2019 in A-C, Heat Pumps & Refrigeration
We have an upcoming installation where the customer does not want a unit outdoors - it's a landmarked building in NYC.

An online search found POWRMATIC which requires only two access holes through the wall and no outdoor unit. Seems to be available in the UK only.

This is for ac only - although supplemental heat would be OK. Split uit with 2-4 zones would be optimal.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Comments

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,283
    Geothermal or a swamp cooler?
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,261
    > @HVACNUT said:
    > Geothermal or a swamp cooler?

    Swamp cooler in NYC?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,283
    edited August 2019
    I hear it's a very dry heat in NYC. No?
    And a geo well can be drilled between the E and B lines
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,696
    Does the roof have a parapet? If so, you may be able to get permission to mount the condenser and compressor out of sight on the roof.

    Another thought. Is there space in the building somewhere to construct an isolated room (insulated) with good sized forced ventilation, and stick the condenser and compressor in that?

    The "condenserless" units (such as the Powermatic you mention and any number of portable units which are available actually do have a condenser, of course -- they have to. What is different about them is that they duct cooler (you hope) air in and across the condenser, and then exhaust the heated air back outside. Hence the two access holes.

    A swamp cooler won't work in New York -- they can only cool down to the dewpoint, and that tends to be high.

    Geothermal would require deep wells unless the lot is large (unlikely!). Depending on exactly where you are in the city, that could be a major cost -- and the wells would be likely to be dry, which brings up another design complexity which you really don't need.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,271
    Absorber
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,696
    pecmsg said:

    Absorber

    Hadn't thought of that. Would work. Like a gas refrigerator... which leads me to wonder if the Amish have done anything along those lines?
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,261
    Does anyone make absorption type air conditioning?!
    And how big is the burner?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,283
    The condenser would still be outside. I'm just throwing it out there. A 4 zone ductless heat pump? The condenser takes up a lot less room and can be mounted semi high off the structure. Is there a little nook somewhere? A little lattice?
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,156
    Have to agree w geo $ in nyc or absorber possible using con Ed steam or a robur gas fired absorber all will cost Peace and good luck clammy

    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,261
    I agree with @HVACNUT
    I fail to see how an absorber avoids having a condenser?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,224
    Energy Fence was a product I saw at the ISH show a few years back. A polymer fence that connected to a heat pump in place of an earth loop.

    Or maybe you could use those water towers seen on some buildings, as your heat dump :)
    Free hot water for the building. In both H&C taps.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,283
    edited August 2019
    Ooh, pipe an open loop to the water tower. Install the coax coil to the underbelly and have compressor inside.

    All kidding aside, are there any instances where the water source is above equipment, pump, expansion tank, etc? What extra measures would be needed to control pressure and flow rate?

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