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Gas boiler, water heater and old black Iron pipe to Modern Modern Hydroponic. Heating Help needed.

DennisBrownNYC
DennisBrownNYC Member Posts: 26
I am in the process of remodeling my basement. I have everything opened up and notice old black pipes. I would like anyone to point me in the direction where i can find Modern Hydronic Heating information. Books, youtube any place where i can gasp information.

I am trying to get rid of my old black iron loop and use Loop Manifold with PEX-AL-PEX or FostaPEX PEX-AL-PEX Tubing 1/2'' pipes. would it be possible to use copper K as my risers?

Again any information would be great. i am drawing up my outline as i write.

Thanks and help me through the leaning experience.

Comments

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,879
    A room by room load calc would be a wise first step. Then decide on heat source, and heat emitters.
    A system design around a supply water temperature you chose based on equipment type, boiler radiators, etc.

    SlantFin has a nice heat load ap you can use for the first step. They also have a wide selection heat sources and components for your upgrade.

    Caleffi Idronics are free downloadable journals that address all the various design steps, piping, controls, etc.


    https://www.slantfin.com/slantfin-heat-loss-calculator/
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    DennisBrownNYC
  • DennisBrownNYC
    DennisBrownNYC Member Posts: 26
    also, i am located in New york
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 16,637
    New York? New York City, I presume -- New York is a big state. In any event, try @JohnNY .
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 2,722
    What’s wrong with your iron pipes?

    Thanks, @Jamie Hall
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, Master Plumber
    in New York
    in New Jersey
    for Consulting Work
    or take his class.
  • archibald tuttle
    archibald tuttle Member Posts: 815
    @johnNY is right that there are plenty of hydronic systems with black pipe that are doing just fine for years (like literally a hundred years in many cases i maintain). One thing I noticed is that as I haved moved towards systems that have very little iron in them, the corrosion is focused on the few places that do have iron, e.g. cast iron circulator.

    Of course there used to be pretty affordable brass circulators before EPA put the kibosh on that for us and stainless does take quite a bit longer to become iron again so there are remedies but what is the rest of your system like? Is the boiler cast iron? pex al pex is highly resistant to oxygen permeation so using some of that wouldn't necessarily compromise remaining target metals although all the change points which are usually dissimilar metals will be targets. That is, of course relative. I haven't seen a lot of failures or callbacks in that regard but have observed the increased corrosion when i've had systems apart for other reasons - which goes again to the question of why change to copper for risers. what are the emitters, etc.
    DennisBrownNYC
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 14,879
    generally if you don't disturb the old iron piping and radiators you should be fine.
    Once you start cutting and modifying iron systems you want to add good dirt and magnetic separators to protect pumps, valves, boilers, etc.

    It may be best to access the condition of the old piping to make a
    choice on re-piping.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    DennisBrownNYC
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,087
    Need more information.
    Are you zoning and converting to pex for home runs back to the boiler? More details and pics would help.
  • DennisBrownNYC
    DennisBrownNYC Member Posts: 26

    New York? New York City, I presume -- New York is a big state. In any event, try @JohnNY .

    NYC Brooklyn
  • DennisBrownNYC
    DennisBrownNYC Member Posts: 26
    JohnNY said:

    What’s wrong with your iron pipes?



    Thanks, @Jamie Hall

    I am remodeling my basement. I have 1" cast iron pipes running all over my basement and since my basement height without sheet rock is 7'2'' zoning and reconfiguration would be ideal right now since everything is open. I already modernize both my water supply line/Drain waste vent(DWV), 3 year old gas boiler, new 75 gal hot water tank and Electrical. Now would be the time to update my heating since everything is open. some pipes are rusted and can't take the chance of my heating being an issue later on.

    Heating is working great through.
    JohnNY
  • DennisBrownNYC
    DennisBrownNYC Member Posts: 26

    @johnNY is right that there are plenty of hydronic systems with black pipe that are doing just fine for years (like literally a hundred years in many cases i maintain). One thing I noticed is that as I haved moved towards systems that have very little iron in them, the corrosion is focused on the few places that do have iron, e.g. cast iron circulator.

    Of course there used to be pretty affordable brass circulators before EPA put the kibosh on that for us and stainless does take quite a bit longer to become iron again so there are remedies but what is the rest of your system like? Is the boiler cast iron? pex al pex is highly resistant to oxygen permeation so using some of that wouldn't necessarily compromise remaining target metals although all the change points which are usually dissimilar metals will be targets. That is, of course relative. I haven't seen a lot of failures or callbacks in that regard but have observed the increased corrosion when i've had systems apart for other reasons - which goes again to the question of why change to copper for risers. what are the emitters, etc.

    what is the rest of your system like? Is the boiler cast iron?



    Have a 94,000 BTU Cast Iron gas water boiler(New Yorker CG50DNI-G2)
    - Cast Iron In-Line Pump, 1/12 hp(Armstrong S-25 BF).

    - Monoflo system( hydroponic system).

    - Cast-iron Column Radiators.

    - 75 gal water heater.

    - 1st floor has 3 Cast-iron radiators and 5 runs from the 1st floor to the second floor.

    - 2nd floor 9 cast iron radiator.

    - Not sure the size of my expansion tank
    - have to look at my circulation pump.

    Will upload pictures.

    let me know if i am missing anything will provide later tonight.
  • DennisBrownNYC
    DennisBrownNYC Member Posts: 26
    hot_rod said:

    generally if you don't disturb the old iron piping and radiators you should be fine.
    Once you start cutting and modifying iron systems you want to add good dirt and magnetic separators to protect pumps, valves, boilers, etc.

    It may be best to access the condition of the old piping to make a
    choice on re-piping.

    Thanks.
  • DennisBrownNYC
    DennisBrownNYC Member Posts: 26
    edited August 2019
    Thanks to everyone for taking the time to look at my post!!
    @hot_rod @JohnNY @Jamie Hall @archibald tuttle @HVACNUT

    So as i stated before, I have gutted out my basement and have been taking out all old pipes and electrical and modernizing my house for the past three years. I am getting ready to frame up and can not frame with all the old heating pipes in the way. I knew before that i would have to remove some pipes but have decided to possible modernize my heating. My friend was was telling me to rerun my loop. These were the materials that he told me to buy(
    Heating
    ).

    Here is a look at my heating system(https://imgur.com/a/W2LV3TK)

    Then my boss tells me later that i should use a Manifolds systems because its easier to maintain.



  • DennisBrownNYC
    DennisBrownNYC Member Posts: 26
    This post pretty much sums up what I am trying to do. https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/154770/radiator-re-pipe-copper-or-pex

    I'm very much a do it yourself plumbing, electrician carpenter guy. i am pretty new to boiler work.

    Any information would be helpful.