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Gas boiler, water heater and old black Iron pipe to Modern Modern Hydroponic. Heating Help needed.

DennisBrownNYCDennisBrownNYC Posts: 11Member
I am in the process of remodeling my basement. I have everything opened up and notice old black pipes. I would like anyone to point me in the direction where i can find Modern Hydronic Heating information. Books, youtube any place where i can gasp information.

I am trying to get rid of my old black iron loop and use Loop Manifold with PEX-AL-PEX or FostaPEX PEX-AL-PEX Tubing 1/2'' pipes. would it be possible to use copper K as my risers?

Again any information would be great. i am drawing up my outline as i write.

Thanks and help me through the leaning experience.

Comments

  • hot_rodhot_rod Posts: 11,684Member
    A room by room load calc would be a wise first step. Then decide on heat source, and heat emitters.
    A system design around a supply water temperature you chose based on equipment type, boiler radiators, etc.

    SlantFin has a nice heat load ap you can use for the first step. They also have a wide selection heat sources and components for your upgrade.

    Caleffi Idronics are free downloadable journals that address all the various design steps, piping, controls, etc.


    https://www.slantfin.com/slantfin-heat-loss-calculator/
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • DennisBrownNYCDennisBrownNYC Posts: 11Member
    also, i am located in New york
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Posts: 10,672Member
    New York? New York City, I presume -- New York is a big state. In any event, try @JohnNY .
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • JohnNYJohnNY Posts: 2,293Member
    What’s wrong with your iron pipes?

    Thanks, @Jamie Hall
    For installations, troubleshooting, and private consulting services, find John "JohnNY" Cataneo here at :
    "72°F Mechanical, LLC"
    Or email John at [email protected]
    John is a professional Master Plumber, licensed by The Department of Buildings of The City of New York, and works extensively in NYC while consulting for clients in and out of state.
  • archibald tuttlearchibald tuttle Posts: 632Member
    @johnNY is right that there are plenty of hydronic systems with black pipe that are doing just fine for years (like literally a hundred years in many cases i maintain). One thing I noticed is that as I haved moved towards systems that have very little iron in them, the corrosion is focused on the few places that do have iron, e.g. cast iron circulator.

    Of course there used to be pretty affordable brass circulators before EPA put the kibosh on that for us and stainless does take quite a bit longer to become iron again so there are remedies but what is the rest of your system like? Is the boiler cast iron? pex al pex is highly resistant to oxygen permeation so using some of that wouldn't necessarily compromise remaining target metals although all the change points which are usually dissimilar metals will be targets. That is, of course relative. I haven't seen a lot of failures or callbacks in that regard but have observed the increased corrosion when i've had systems apart for other reasons - which goes again to the question of why change to copper for risers. what are the emitters, etc.
  • hot_rodhot_rod Posts: 11,684Member
    generally if you don't disturb the old iron piping and radiators you should be fine.
    Once you start cutting and modifying iron systems you want to add good dirt and magnetic separators to protect pumps, valves, boilers, etc.

    It may be best to access the condition of the old piping to make a
    choice on re-piping.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • HVACNUTHVACNUT Posts: 2,330Member
    Need more information.
    Are you zoning and converting to pex for home runs back to the boiler? More details and pics would help.
  • DennisBrownNYCDennisBrownNYC Posts: 11Member

    New York? New York City, I presume -- New York is a big state. In any event, try @JohnNY .

    NYC Brooklyn
  • DennisBrownNYCDennisBrownNYC Posts: 11Member
    JohnNY said:

    What’s wrong with your iron pipes?



    Thanks, @Jamie Hall

    I am remodeling my basement. I have 1" cast iron pipes running all over my basement and since my basement height without sheet rock is 7'2'' zoning and reconfiguration would be ideal right now since everything is open. I already modernize both my water supply line/Drain waste vent(DWV), 3 year old gas boiler, new 75 gal hot water tank and Electrical. Now would be the time to update my heating since everything is open. some pipes are rusted and can't take the chance of my heating being an issue later on.

    Heating is working great through.
  • DennisBrownNYCDennisBrownNYC Posts: 11Member

    @johnNY is right that there are plenty of hydronic systems with black pipe that are doing just fine for years (like literally a hundred years in many cases i maintain). One thing I noticed is that as I haved moved towards systems that have very little iron in them, the corrosion is focused on the few places that do have iron, e.g. cast iron circulator.

    Of course there used to be pretty affordable brass circulators before EPA put the kibosh on that for us and stainless does take quite a bit longer to become iron again so there are remedies but what is the rest of your system like? Is the boiler cast iron? pex al pex is highly resistant to oxygen permeation so using some of that wouldn't necessarily compromise remaining target metals although all the change points which are usually dissimilar metals will be targets. That is, of course relative. I haven't seen a lot of failures or callbacks in that regard but have observed the increased corrosion when i've had systems apart for other reasons - which goes again to the question of why change to copper for risers. what are the emitters, etc.

    what is the rest of your system like? Is the boiler cast iron?



    Have a 94,000 BTU Cast Iron gas water boiler(New Yorker CG50DNI-G2)
    - Cast Iron In-Line Pump, 1/12 hp(Armstrong S-25 BF).

    - Monoflo system( hydroponic system).

    - Cast-iron Column Radiators.

    - 75 gal water heater.

    - 1st floor has 3 Cast-iron radiators and 5 runs from the 1st floor to the second floor.

    - 2nd floor 9 cast iron radiator.

    - Not sure the size of my expansion tank
    - have to look at my circulation pump.

    Will upload pictures.

    let me know if i am missing anything will provide later tonight.
  • DennisBrownNYCDennisBrownNYC Posts: 11Member
    hot_rod said:

    generally if you don't disturb the old iron piping and radiators you should be fine.
    Once you start cutting and modifying iron systems you want to add good dirt and magnetic separators to protect pumps, valves, boilers, etc.

    It may be best to access the condition of the old piping to make a
    choice on re-piping.

    Thanks.
  • DennisBrownNYCDennisBrownNYC Posts: 11Member
    edited August 1
    Thanks to everyone for taking the time to look at my post!!
    @hot_rod @JohnNY @Jamie Hall @archibald tuttle @HVACNUT

    So as i stated before, I have gutted out my basement and have been taking out all old pipes and electrical and modernizing my house for the past three years. I am getting ready to frame up and can not frame with all the old heating pipes in the way. I knew before that i would have to remove some pipes but have decided to possible modernize my heating. My friend was was telling me to rerun my loop. These were the materials that he told me to buy(
    Heating
    ).

    Here is a look at my heating system(https://imgur.com/a/W2LV3TK)

    Then my boss tells me later that i should use a Manifolds systems because its easier to maintain.



  • DennisBrownNYCDennisBrownNYC Posts: 11Member
    This post pretty much sums up what I am trying to do. https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/154770/radiator-re-pipe-copper-or-pex

    I'm very much a do it yourself plumbing, electrician carpenter guy. i am pretty new to boiler work.

    Any information would be helpful.
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