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Compressor

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clint
clint Member Posts: 5
Had new 4 ton condensor installed Nov 2018 but didn't have it made ready for use til Feb as I was recovering from hurricane Harvey . Compressor failed Oct 2018 and again July 2019 .each time I have to have it replaced I have to pay around 700 in labor .
My question is when I use auth installer and haven't had a years continuous service out of this unit why should I pay anything .
And the air handler was just two years old when Harvey hit both 4ton luxaire . I feel like I'm being taken to the cleaners .
Considered scrapping luxaire and getting anything else .
Any suggestions on how to make this 4500 dollar junk work

Comments

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,846
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    You seriously need a new service technician. Go back to Luxaire or the distributor to find one.

    Contrary to popular opinion compressor's seldom go bad. Compressors run within a "design envelope" that means there are a range of temperatures and pressures it can operate safely at. Run them within there range they run a long time. Force them outside their design and they will fail

    Example: Run it with low air flow on the indoor blower and freeze ups will result. Coils need to be clean and a clean air filter.

    Since you have had multiple failures the old rule of thumb with compressors is 'if the original compressor fails you have to find out why it failed. If you don't find out the failure cause the second (and 3rd, and 4th) compressor will also fail"

    Not that hard for a qualified technician with the right tools.

    Check "find a contractor on this site"

    ratiorick in AlaskaSolid_Fuel_Man
  • clint
    clint Member Posts: 5
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    The coils are clean and filters changed more often than they should be .. I've done my part .
    I want to know more on his side of it what to look for like charge and anything else . I live on gulf coast and heat index is well over 100 .
    My house is A frame and open beam
    No attic . Roof is decked in ship lap and open to inside , the living room is open top the top about thirty feet at tallest point . I have the 4 ton upstairs and a 3ton down stairs .
    By floor space a 5ton should cool it but with curling and no attic the 7 tons struggles
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,701
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    Really need to be able to touch the system to give it a through going-over. There are lots of measurements that can only be performed with the proper instruments. Your best bet is to find a good local contractor & get an evaluation.

    That said, post pics of whatever part of the work you can see. Note how the lineset runs. What's the average on & off time of the outside unit? Ever hear it switching on & off quickly? You should run out of patience waiting for it to switch—longer run times are better! What's the indoor temperature you keep it at? do you use a setback (programmable thermostat)?

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,893
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    Installed November of 2018.
    Commissioned February (2019?).
    Compressor failed October 2018.
    Second compressor failed July 2019.
    The sequence of events doesn't work.
    If however two compressors failed in a brand new condenser within a year then you should pay diddly. Even though we dont discuss pricing here.
    Surely Luxaire and the compressor manufacturer want to know what's up. They usually want the faulty part returned to be checked. Because one failure, possibly. Two failures? Something stinks. The installer may have had to pay for the second compressor and passed it on to you.
    My thoughts are either heavy moisture in the refrigerant circuit meaning they didn't properly evacuate the lines, install a filter drier, or didn't replace the filter drier after the first failure. Or a serious voltage issue.
    They should reimburse you and correct everything at no charge. No matter how many attempts it takes them to figure it out.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,893
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    > @HVACNUT said:
    > Installed November of 2018.
    > Commissioned February (2019?).
    > Compressor failed October 2018.
    > Second compressor failed July 2019.
    > The sequence of events doesn't work.
    > If however two compressors failed in a brand new condenser within a year then you should pay diddly. Even though we dont discuss pricing here.
    > Surely Luxaire and the compressor manufacturer want to know what's up. They usually want the faulty part returned to be checked. Because one failure, possibly. Two failures? Something stinks. The installer may have had to pay for the second compressor and passed it on to you.
    > My thoughts are either heavy moisture in the refrigerant circuit meaning they didn't properly evacuate the lines, install a filter drier, or didn't replace the filter drier after the first failure. Or a serious voltage issue.
    > They should reimburse you and correct everything at no charge. No matter how many attempts it takes them to figure it out.
    >

    Afterthought. Was this originally a system replacement from R22 to R410A?
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,967
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    The installing contractor is more important then the name on the boxes, this is not an appliance you take home and plug in, several boxes of parts will arrive at your home. Every job is unique. All those parts MUST be assembled by qualified personnel under stick guidelines. If corners are cut the results don't show up for weeks, months or years.

    The compressor in that luxaire is the same compressor in 10 or 15 other 4-Ton units, don't blame them blame the installing people!
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,701
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    Locate the factory rep for your area & tell them of your problems. They should be very interested in making sure you are happy with your purchase & should be able to get you satisfaction.
  • clint
    clint Member Posts: 5
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    Called luxaire warranty and was told pound sand by the woman I got on the phone . I m gonna have to pay for second comp Fri . I have a large family and cannot wait for them to come around . If comp fails again I will find someone to get thier attention . I told my installer the drier the unit comes with wasn't enough I demanded driers on both the liquid and gas lines as I'm afraid of debris causing failures. This has been the worst and most expensive thing I've ever done .
    As to the r22 question yes it had been on 22 on the air handler and o ask about that when I had them installed . Air handler was bought 18 months before Harvey which killed condensor . So I replaced condensor with new one but it was 410a and installer said all he had to do was change from expansion valve to office .
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,967
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    clint said:

    Called luxaire warranty and was told pound sand by the woman I got on the phone . I m gonna have to pay for second comp Fri . I have a large family and cannot wait for them to come around . If comp fails again I will find someone to get thier attention . I told my installer the drier the unit comes with wasn't enough I demanded driers on both the liquid and gas lines as I'm afraid of debris causing failures. This has been the worst and most expensive thing I've ever done .

    As to the r22 question yes it had been on 22 on the air handler and o ask about that when I had them installed . Air handler was bought 18 months before Harvey which killed condensor . So I replaced condensor with new one but it was 410a and installer said all he had to do was change from expansion valve to office .

    Luxaire as well as most manufactures wont talk with the homeowner only a authorized contractor.

    I'm sorry but you don't get to demand driers on "Both Sides"! A suction filter serves a specific purposes, once its job is done it must be removed or it can cause more damage.

    Again I think the original installing contractor is your problem not the equipment!
    clint
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,701
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    pecmsg said:

    Again I think the original installing contractor is your problem not the equipment!

    This. Find a better contractor.

    If you're going to pay for it anyway, why not look for someone who can fix the problem? If they're on good terms with the mfgr &| supplier, they may be able to get you some satisfaction, since this's been an ongoing problem.

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,893
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    > @clint said:
    > Called luxaire warranty and was told pound sand by the woman I got on the phone . I m gonna have to pay for second comp Fri . I have a large family and cannot wait for them to come around . If comp fails again I will find someone to get thier attention.

    Dont get anyone's "attention". Stealth is best. JK.

    I told my installer the drier the unit comes with wasn't enough I demanded driers on both the liquid and gas lines as I'm afraid of debris causing failures.

    A suction line drier would be in the event of compressor burnout. Was that the diagnosis? Electrical or mineral oil molasses?

    > As to the r22 question yes it had been on 22 on the air handler and o ask about that when I had them installed . Air handler was bought 18 months before Harvey which killed condensor . So I replaced condensor with new one but it was 410a and installer said all he had to do was change from expansion valve to office .

    Probably from orifice to TXV. The conversion is fine IF it was done correctly, which it sounds like it was not.

    Before the compressor is replaced again, they should: Isolate the condenser from the line set and A/H.
    Nitrogen charge the condenser and line set/AH separately. So in each section, flow can only go in one direction at a time. Nitro charge and clear in one direction, then the other on both.
    The refrigerant lines need to be acid flushed to accept R410A. Again, shoot it separately both ways through the condenser and line set/A/H sections.
    All brazing should be done under a low pressure nitrogen charge to prevent carbon deposits from forming on the insides of the piping.
    New LL drier. A SL drier cant hurt at this point.
    The system must get a triple vac to 500 microns or less and hold for at least an hour. Lunch time. Maybe a couple pizza's with help motivate. Kill 'em with kindness.
    You demand virgin R410A to be put into the system.
    Charge the system to proper sub cooling.
    If it were me, I'd make sure a supervisor, owner, vice president, acting assistant manager to the press secretary, somebody shows their face at my home to reassure me. And have all you paperwork handy.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,846
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    Ok so the problem is R-22 to R410A conversion Luxaire won't do a thing for you with mismatched equipment.

    Like I said before if you don't know why the first compressor failed the replacements will fail as well
  • clint
    clint Member Posts: 5
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    Well sorry to tell you at this point and amont of money I'm paying out my demands will be met or I won't pay. .Done things thier way and at almost double price for unit .
    As for not speeking to the homeowner or better yet the actual customer . That's had to be biggest **** business practice I've ever herd of . But I'm a field mechanic and have the customer watching me program ECM or remove trans cylinder head or whatever is needed .
    Guess acsnifaters are special
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,893
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    Nice. Let us know how you make out with that.😁
    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,967
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    clint said:

    Well sorry to tell you at this point and amont of money I'm paying out my demands will be met or I won't pay. .Done things thier way and at almost double price for unit .

    As for not speeking to the homeowner or better yet the actual customer . That's had to be biggest **** business practice I've ever herd of . But I'm a field mechanic and have the customer watching me program ECM or remove trans cylinder head or whatever is needed .

    Guess acsnifaters are special

    When tech support asks specific questions what are you going to tell them, Fine, Normal, Within range! You have to be there Eyes and Ears in the field, Sorry but your not qualified! That's why they will not deal with the homeowner or "End User" as you put it,they need specific answers to specific questions!
    GrallertSolid_Fuel_Man
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
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    Absolutely 100% positively TRUE!
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • clint
    clint Member Posts: 5
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    Well as the one spending the money and they have a he warranty and I'm having the trouble I'm having . But that's ok thier auth installer will repair again and third failure lawyer since I'm not qualified to talk to . Then again nisther is he but I bet they find someone to talk to him .
    I didn't want to handle this this way but if you you are so good you can't talk to me with thousands of my money invested see you in court ..
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,893
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    > @clint said:
    > Well as the one spending the money and they have a he warranty and I'm having the trouble I'm having . But that's ok thier auth installer will repair again and third failure lawyer since I'm not qualified to talk to . Then again nisther is he but I bet they find someone to talk to him .
    > I didn't want to handle this this way but if you you are so good you can't talk to me with thousands of my money invested see you in court ..
    >

    Um, what?