Old Steam System Component Identification

mikeg2015

Stopped by this house this AM. Won’t be saving this steam system. 2/3rd of the house converted to forced hot air and piping rotting out.... plus its a lower income rental property. 262 Carrier Boiler (looks like a Dunkirk with its side outlets). OF course piped wrong on the header, no Hartford loop, pressuretrol set to 8psi. All the typical. Probably why piping is rotting out and blowing out steam. Should have taken more pictures, but my boss was with me.

One component I haven’t seen before. There numbers printed on it and I think it had only condensate pipes going to it.

2nd picture there’s a loop in an adjacent room dropping down to a low point near the floor. (That’s where it’s leaking steam... meaning some traps are stuck and steam is getting into the condensate lines.) is this just some sort of low point drain? Not all of the condensate runs to it. But In hindsight I’M wondering is it’s related to the first picture. Some sort of differential loop to keep water in the boiler.

All of the condensate returns were dry until dropping down to the the main return near the boiler... except that loop pipe in the picture. My boss thought maybe they had a radiator there at one time, But that didn’t make any sense to me.

Jamie Hall

That loop could just be a way to get condensate back from the end of the steam main into the return -- since I sort of irrationally assume that one of those pipe is a steam main and the other a return. Of course at 8 psi it would be utterly useless... and no way to vent air (I don't see evidence of a crossover trap...).

The gizmo? Are all the pipes going into it returns, or is one of them steam? And if the latter, is there any sign that there might have been a vent on the return at that location? If so, it might be a new and different kind of differential loop...

Oh @Steamhead ! Where are you?

gerry gill

some kind of vapor system receiver i bet. Steamhead likely will know.

Danny Scully

Looks like a gauge glass would have gone in the front. Maybe Sarco?

Steamhead

@gerry gill and @Danny Scully are right. The numbers are the scale of pressure in ounces or possibly (if it's a Wiley-Simplex system) pounds. There would have been a sight glass in front of the scale and the level in the glass would show the pressure. Not sure if there was a float in there to operate dampers on a coal boiler.

If the idiots tear everything out, be sure to save this and anything else you can. And a piping diagram would help.

Were you able to see any manufacturer's name on it?

EBEBRATT-Ed

Looks like there is/was an oval tag on the left side. Wonderin about the middle pipe on top....a vent or maybe a double tapped bushing up there

DanHolohan

I'd say the end-of-main piping is a loop seal. The device is definitely similar to Broomell in the way it worked. It most likely operated chains for a damper, using an internal float.

I wish we had a more straight-on look at that label. I can make out some lettering on it but not enough. Nice find!

mikeg2015

Dan you are correct. When we went back to fix it yesterday, I checked again, and one pipe was the steam header the other a return. It’s a common low ceiling basement and they ran out of slope to pitch the main and condensate return. SO that return is “wet” but elevated, and the loop acts as a trap and mud leg. It’s a little over 64” tall, so would hold back 2psi.

Boss wanted to cut it short originally and just thread the ends and connect it across. I called him and was surprised that he knew what is was. If I had cut it short, live steam would fill the returns. We will prefab two new legs in the shop, thread the stubs about 1’ from the ceiling. It will get a new drain valve too.

Then again, at 8psi, live steam is everywhere and I guarantee most of the traps need rebuilt too. Pressure trol was set at 8psi cut it in!!! And 1 psi differential. I turned it down to 0.5/1.


That device has a condensate line going back to in in the top center, one steam header on the top left and I think the top right goes back to the boiler.

Boiler header pitches away from the equalizer and back to one of the two supplies. But not bull headed tee so it’s 1/2 correct.

DanHolohan

I'm glad you caught that. Great job.

mikeg2015

Got into the apartment. It’s a moline system. That device on the wall at closer look measures ounces of pressure which makes sense. System needs a vapor stat and a much smaller boiler. The apartment at a glance has at most 150EDR installed. Boiler is good for 650 with 33% pickup @240edr/ft. On a moline it way more. With what’s currently in service it needs a 50k boiler.

Very sad. At one time that neighborhood was higher end with wealthy merchants.

Some radiators were missing air vents too.

mikeg2015

Replaced the loop. Got one fitting apart but ended up cutting the steam side and I got to thread my first pipe in the field. Made up the two 4’ legs in the shop.

Need to get some 2” and 1-1/2” dies so I can do my own boiler at home and just buy a stick of each and cut to length.


Shots of 2 of the radiators. So sad to see another steam system eventually go away.

I get with new vents, a vaporstat and maybe a 2 stage gas valve the whole system could have purred and heated nice.

DanHolohan

Nice job!