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Bee's wax

Grega
Grega Member Posts: 20
I have always used bees wax to help loosen older steam fittings if i am trying to save some of the old piping. This was taught to me by a gentleman who has now passed away. I have tried to find articles on this as to why it works. Anyway have a link?

Comments

  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,790
    Heard of it. Wasn't it some kind of technique used in the military?
    How was the wax used?
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,300
    Well, that's a new one. Would love to here about that
    Intplm.delta T
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,790
    I would too. After all. Isn't heating it up enough?
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,439
    Perhaps heating the joint wicks the wax into the threads?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Intplm.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,790
    @ChrisJ That makes sense. Maybe it also helps preserve what is being heated, or allows for less heat to be used?
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,300
    @Dan_NJ
    Interesting. probably the environmentally safe candles we have today wouldn't work
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,439
    edited April 2019

    @Dan_NJ
    Interesting. probably the environmentally safe candles we have today wouldn't work

    Environmentally safe candles?

    We no longer have candles made from Sperm Wales aka Spermaceti candles.........but environmentally safe candles is a new one on me. What are they?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,601
    Non-flammable. Because, you know, fire danger.
  • Dan_NJ
    Dan_NJ Member Posts: 247
    You mean the plastic ones with potentially toxic batteries in them? :)
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,439
    Dan_NJ said:

    You mean the plastic ones with potentially toxic batteries in them? :)

    While personally I don't use them, I prefer the plastic fake candles in the hands of the general public more than real candles.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Brewbeer
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,300
    Yankee Candle MFG. Plant is 1/2 hr north of me. Used to do a lot of work there.

    Last I knew they were switching over to "soy wax" for candle making. The reason was some environmental friendly thing. I know they had issues making it work wax melted at different temperatures and if you overheated it the batch went bad ...stuff like that. Don't know if they eventually changed over or not
  • Sailah
    Sailah Member Posts: 826
    I've used the wax trick a few times. Usually for removing of stuck fasteners, it does work. Just heat things up and press the candle to wick it into joint.

    However, often a can of Kroil is far more handy so I typically use that instead and find it's more effective.

    When I need to remove something I rank it in terms of how painful it will be to fix if it goes wrong.

    Stuff I don't care about really- PB Blaster
    Stuff that absolutely has to work and I have 1 shot at it or it's misery- Kroil
    Peter Owens
    SteamIQ
    GroundUp
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,865
    I have been doing this with candles for 15 years. Used to race dirt track cars as a kid, an old timer at the track taught it to me. Working out of an almost tool-less garage on a 14 year old's wage was pretty tough, so this saved me a whole lot of headache. Just heat up the fastener with my cutting torch and smash a candle over the threads; once cooled they almost always spin right out. I got my paws on a whole case of candles from church when they switched colors, and I still have 10-12 left. Not sure what kind of wax it is, but it does work
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,300
    @Sailah
    I agree Kroil is the very best. I don't think you can buy it anywhere except on line. Never seen it in stores.
  • Sailah
    Sailah Member Posts: 826
    I used to get it at Automatic Heating in Providence when i would call on them and it was very reasonable per can. Now i get on Amazon and pay thru nose.

    I don't know if you are Seinfeld fans but do you remember the episode with Elaine and the Today Sponge? Are you sponge worthy? ;)

    That's how i feel about Kroil. I look at rusted fasteners and ask them: "Are you Kroil worthy? Or can i get by with PB Blaster?"

    Funny since i started using anti seize my Kroil cans last forever...
    Peter Owens
    SteamIQ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,439
    Sailah said:

    I used to get it at Automatic Heating in Providence when i would call on them and it was very reasonable per can. Now i get on Amazon and pay thru nose.



    I don't know if you are Seinfeld fans but do you remember the episode with Elaine and the Today Sponge? Are you sponge worthy? ;)



    That's how i feel about Kroil. I look at rusted fasteners and ask them: "Are you Kroil worthy? Or can i get by with PB Blaster?"



    Funny since i started using anti seize my Kroil cans last forever...

    That's how some of us feel about Steamaster tablets. :p
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    BobC
  • mikeg2015
    mikeg2015 Member Posts: 1,194
    Do you need ot heat it first before using Kroil and get things loosen up a title before using
  • Sailah
    Sailah Member Posts: 826
    I feel heat is always the first ingredient, I'm looking for thermal differential to open up the joint and break the rust bond. The Kroil can then scoot in there when the joint is warm.

    I remember the concept of thermal differential really hammered home when I got into motorcycles and machining. Changing wheel bearings in most of my motorcycles was a dreaded task until someone told me the trick of putting the bearings in the freezer overnight. Then heat up the hub with a torch or heatgun to 350. Bearing would just drop in and when everything equalized it was a press fit.

    When I got into machining, I finally got the tools to measure these things. 0.001" (one thou) is enough for a press fit on things around an inch. Achieving a one thou differential with heating/cooling is fairly simple. Put another way, one of my first lathe projects was boring out a big slug of aluminum. I toiled away on it and finally achieved the bore size that I wanted. Went and had some lunch. When I came back the bore had "shrunk" a few thou after it had a chance to cool. Fortunately it was saved since I had metal to remove not add.

    Last story about temp differential, one time I had a motorcycle with angular contact bearings and the hardened race was stuck in the hub. I tried punching it out from the back, couldn't grab it with a puller as there was no lip. I even considered trying to cut it with a Dremel but the chance of screwing up was great. A buddy told me to weld a bead around the race halfway, said when it cooled "it would drop out".

    Well I was desperate so I tried it. TIG welded a bead on the steel race. Turned it upside down and let it sit. Sure enough it dropped right out of there once the metal cooled as welds will shrink on the side of the heat application.
    Peter Owens
    SteamIQ
    Alan (California Radiant) ForbesVoyagerCLamb
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,601
    I'll have to try Kroil one of these days. I've had good luck with PB Blaster. Spinning old drive sheaves apart. the first one I hammered on for half-an-hour before I got it to move, the second came apart by hand after I soaked it with PB Blaster.
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,471
    Kroil isn't cheap but when you consider the time and aggravation it saves the cost factor just goes away.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • I'll have to try the beeswax trick. I have a lot of it.


    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    Erin Holohan HaskellSailah
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,300
    @Sailah
    I have done some welding and have herd of the trick you mentioned about welding shrinkage.

    I know first hand that overwelding something causes more than a little shrinkage...it's called massive warping....found out the hard way
    Sailah
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,865
    @Sailah
    I have used that trick quite a few times actually, back in my racing/mud truck/demolition derby days. Another one that I always found awesome was heating pinion and carrier bearings for install, as I didn't own a press. Simply take the cage off a rectangular halogen work light and set the bearing directly on the glass, after a half hour or so, grab it with a channel lock and drop it right on the shaft. I'll bet I did that 20-25 times with great success, but then upgraded to an old retired deep fryer full of motor oil. Fry it up and drop it on. Just did some axle bearings that way about a month ago, and employed the welder for the races as well.
    Sailah
  • mikeg2015
    mikeg2015 Member Posts: 1,194
    Does paraffin still work too or do I need ot search around for natural bees wax?
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,601
    IIRC wax toilet rings are bees wax.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,439
    > @ratio said:
    > IIRC wax toilet rings are bees wax.

    That's a sh#tty use for it .
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Intplm.Alan (California Radiant) Forbes