Heating bathrooms with one pipe steam system

branimal

I'm gut renovating an apartment with a one pipe steam system. Two bathrooms side by side. One had a 2" steam pipe and the other had no heat.

Burnham IN7 in the basement heating 3300 sq ft.

I could run steam pipe into both bathrooms, but I wanted to know my other options. Small steam baseboard, etc.

Thanks

Steamhead

Small cast-iron radiator, as made by OCS, Governale, Burnham etc.

branimal

Anything with a more modern appearance?

EBEBRATT-Ed

You can use baseboard but it has to be pitched or hooked up 2 pipe which can be done.

A radiator is the best

mikeg2015

Other option is run a hot water loop off the boiler. Has ot be piped correctly. But if you have floor access under it, you could do a low temp radiant floor. But you need a mixing valve and injection loop to control water temp.

Can also custom build a radiant panel if they have a shared wall. Add some towel racks and you also get a towel warmer out of it.

When I renovate our bath, I wish I had piped the shower hot water supply in series with a towel rack made from copper pipe, but before the recirc connection. I’ll do it on our master bath when we construct it.

branimal

Sounds like a radiator is the most straightforward way.

Found a nice small one at AF Supply.com And they have a location very close by!

https://www.afsupply.com/cast-iron-radiator-19-h-4-tubes-4-sections.html

Thanks.

ethicalpaul

I could sell you mine, I just swapped it out for a vintage model

gerry gill

steamradiators.com

branimal

ethicalpaul said:

I could sell you mine, I just swapped it out for a vintage model

What's the EDR on the radiator and the measurement? Thread size on the radiator valve? Thx

Danny Scully

Edr is 16, radiator is 19h/4.5w/17.5L. Botttom tappings are 1-1/4”, top are 1”.

branimal

Does a bottom tapping of 1 1/4" hook up to a 1" steam radiator shutoff valves?

I ask b/c I have radiators the same size 19/4.5/17.5 and they take 1" steam radiator valves.

I'd like to order the required piping today.

Here's the radiator I'm considering.
https://www.afsupply.com/cast-iron-radiator-19-h-4-tubes-4-sections.html

Steamhead

Just get a 1-1/4"x1" bushing and you'll be fine.

Danny Scully

That is the exact same radiator @branimal and the bottom connection is 1-1/4”. A bushing would work as @Steamhead suggested, although I like bushing the bottom of the radiator valve instead.

branimal

I'm reducing a 2" steam pipe and splitting it off to these 2 bathroom radiators. Would it be preferable to run 1" or 1 1/4" piping after the reducer coupling? See diagram.

Thanks!

Steamhead

I'd go 2" all the way up to the tee, and make your reductions there. Much simpler and no chance of inadequate steam delivery as long as all your horizontal pipes have good pitch.

ethicalpaul

I got mine from AFSupply too, just up the road from me in Fairfield NJ if I recall correctly. I can tell you that even though it is pretty heavy, it gives off nothing like the heat that the old ones do.

I can't even imagine how little a 4 section one would give off, I think it wouldn't even be noticeable!

branimal

I was talking to a landlord in my area and he said none of his bathrooms have heat. It's not required in NYC either. And he suggested cast iron radiators in a bathroom are going to rust from the constant moisture (shower etc).

Another option is to put a radiator on the wall just outside the bathrooms. It will heat up the kitchen area while also giving off some heat to the bathrooms. See pic.

@Steamhead - Regarding pitch, If I put a 90 elbow on a vertical pipe, you cannot create any pitch unless you lean the pipe backwards? Is it better practice to put a 45 elbow on vertical pipes?

@ethicalpaul why do you think these new radiators don't give off as much heat? Is the metal different? Or the new radiator's internal pathway for steam smaller?

ethicalpaul

I'm not sure why, or even the extent of the difference (it's hard to measure objectively). The tubes are definitely smaller than older radiators, and yet the units definitely have a lot of mass, and that could mean the internal races are very small. The unit got hot to touch, but it didn't seem to "radiate" heat very well. I never got around to painting it, and that can make some difference.

The rust concern I think isn't really valid. I have a (painted) in-wall cast iron radiator/convector in my house (built 1913) and there's no rust (and there's never been a bathroom fan in there either). Certainly with modern venting codes there must not be "constant moisture" in these bathrooms.

I can tell you the comfort of a heat source in the bathroom is very nice in the winter.

Fred

I have a small radiator, about 25 EDR in each of two bathrooms in my house and they keep those bathrooms nice and toasty. They are original to the house (117 years old) and moisture has had no effect on them so the concern about showers/other bathroom moisture is unfounded.
I also have two other bathrooms that don't have radiators at all but have radiators in the hall nearby. Those bathrooms stay very comfortable also but not as toasty as the ones with radiators.

mikeg2015

A nice oversized radiator is great in a bathroom. Can hang cotton towels over it too.

Rust? It’s called paint. Neither of mine have rust. Bathrooms should have exhaust fans anyway.

JohnNY

I live in Manhattan and I've only got a steam riser in my bathroom. A 2" riser pipe at 1 psi steam pressure gives us a surface temperature of about 215° at roughly 1 EDR per linear foot. With a 9' ceiling, that's basically a Governale/OCS/Burnham 4-tube, 19" tall radiator with 6 sections.
Rust in not an issue. Spray paint the radiator if you're concerned. And having the radiator outside the bathroom will be no help at all. Don't listen to the ridiculous things people want to tell you.

Fred

@JohnNY , It's not worth a debate but I have two bathrooms that stay quite comfortable without radiators in them and the radiators outside those rooms are the only source of heat. It's not ridiculous. It does however assume you leave the bathroom door open when not in use.

JohnNY

Fred said:

@JohnNY , It's not worth a debate but I have two bathrooms that stay quite comfortable without radiators in them and the radiators outside those rooms are the only source of heat. It's not ridiculous. It does however assume you leave the bathroom door open when not in use.

Fair enough.

branimal

Thanks for the feedback guys. Right now I'm renovating the 3rd floor of a 3-family building. I'll be completely demo'ing and renovating the 2nd floor after I'm done with the 3rd.

My thinking is, if I need bathroom radiation, I can always run the pipes up from underneath when I have the 2nd floor ceiling open. Laying pipe from up top is a bit tedious. Laying on joists and reaching down 2-3' with pipe wrenches is tough on the body.

The added benefit is I'll know exactly where the finished walls are.

clammy

Had a old cottage home that just had a 1 1/2 pipe coming out of the floor went about 7 ft up w a cap and a angle vent drill and tapped into the side of the pipe . Barely noticed it kinda behind the door heated that bath pretty good .it would have been nice with a couple of tee s off it to hang towels . The house was built in the late 40 s or so all original .peace and good luck clammy

SeanBeans

I like what @gerry gill did on one of his mini tube installs. That custom box

Dave in QCA

Nothing nicer than a warm radiator in the bathroom. I have had many through the years, hot water and steam. I've never had a problem with a radiator rusting in a bathroom. BUT, if you get in the habit of putting wet towels, mittens, etc on the radiator to dry, you're going to get rust from that. Hang towels on a rack directly above the radiator.