My mod-con gas usage vs. Atmospheric vs. Neighborhood gas usage over 4+ yrs

NY_Rob

Nat Grid now makes available to us homeowners fancy "us vs. them" gas usage charts.

My charts go back to mid 2014 when I still had a 100K BTU Hydrotherm HC-100 atmospheric boiler and stand alone gas hot water heater.
The full 2014 and 2015 year charts are all atmospheric boiler and stand alone gas hot water heater usage for me.
Starting in June 2016 I installed the HTP UFT-80W mod-con with a 30gal indirect.
The interesting part is not the actual therms used, but how my usage trend changed after the mod-con install from always being alongside "All Neighbors" with the atmospheric boiler/water heater to now pretty much being along side the "Efficient Neighbors" usage wise.

FWIW- our "neighborhood" is a 1960's era development. There are several different styles of homes, but they are all very close in square footage to any of the other models in the area. I feel the NG "neighbors" they used for comparison is actually pretty valid for comparison in this case.


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Gordy

Hmmm I question what the efficient neighbors are using to heat?

Is it same, or are they on an electric type system?
Or are they just holding a lower set point?
Or is it a fallacy data point to give people incentive to be more efficient?

Gordy

44 therms less in the month of January. Than the inefficient neighbors.

Can you find out who the efficient neighbors are in your area?

NY_Rob

Gordy said:

Hmmm I question what the efficient neighbors are using to heat?

Is it same, or are they on an electric type system?

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These houses (probably 100+) were all built at the same time by the same developer... every one had gas heat.. and they all had the HC-100 installed. We never see an oil truck around here- unless it's cutting through our neighborhood as a shortcut.

I looked at my next door neighbors setup last week as she had a boiler outage.. same HC-100 that I had. I checked the boiler breaker at the main panel... six breakers for the whole house on the original 100amp service hidden behind a picture on the wall in the den.

Most people here still have the HC-100's... I see them on the curb occasionally as they slowly die out... but maybe only three over the last three years.

flat_twin

Yes it would be interesting if they broke it down into forced air, hydronic, etc. Also wonder how big the "them" sampling is? Rob your new trending pattern is easy to see, also easy to see the potential savings each month.

NY_Rob

^ no forced air in our neighborhood... these houses sold for $12K-$13K back in1962/3. Everyone got the same appliances, same windows, same siding, and same heating system. All have two hydronic fin-tube zones on one t-stat with one circulator on a HC-100. Simplest system you've ever seen... but it has worked for most continuously since 1962.

Gordy

So the efficient group either has a similar set up as yourself, or they use a much lower set point, or possibly setback scheduling.

Gordy

The reason I question is I’ve seen how much blood, sweat, and thought you put into the build, and tweaking. I’m quite sure if like systems were in the hood they did not get the same thought, and attention as yours.

Being the efficient neighbor graph line is similar to yours yet a bit lower makes me wonder if it’s a fake efficient neighbor baseline. Maybe even based on your system alone. In other words you are the only efficient neighbor

NY_Rob

^ I'm guessing the "efficient group" have upgraded to mod-cons like I have. It's probably a very small percentage (if I had to guess I'd say under 10% have mod-cons). I know of a handful that have upgraded because I now see or hear the side-venting.

The HC-100's are starting to age now (they were installed in the early 60's) and probably quite a few will be swapped out with mod-cons not only because of the fuel savings but the $1,000+ cost of adding a chimney liner for a replacement atmospheric boiler.

Gordy

We have the same thing for electricity usage, but not gas. Not yet anyway, but I’m sure it’s coming.

NY_Rob

Gordy said:

The reason I question is I’ve seen how much blood, sweat, and thought you put into the build, and tweaking. I’m quite sure if like systems were in the hood they did not get the same thought, and attention as yours.

Being the efficient neighbor graph line is similar to yours yet a bit lower makes me wonder if it’s a fake efficient neighbor baseline. Maybe even based on your system alone. In other words you are the only efficient neighbor

It would be hilarious if I was a set of one for the graph!
I agree it is completely possible.

I walk my dog on the blocks both east and west of our street. I've kept a pretty good eye on them over time... if I'm correct there are about five other houses with mod-cons in my "neighborhood".

Steamhead

Some other factors to consider, in addition to those mentioned above:

Added insulation

Better windows

Lesser hot-water usage

HC-199 being oversized (what was your heat loss?)

Robert O'Brien

They're keeping temps extremely low. See it all the time.

Gordy

^the oranges with the apple seed you never know.

ratio

The cynic in me wonders if it isn't a synthetic "efficient user", along the lines of '≈10% less is more efficient, so let's show that as a separate line as a goal'. But it is interesting seeing the shift.

NY_Rob

Steamhead said:

Some other factors to consider, in addition to those mentioned above:

Added insulation

Better windows

Lesser hot-water usage

HC-199 being oversized (what was your heat loss?)

The area homes all got the HC100 installed as "original equipment" 80% efficient.. 80K BTU output.
My heatloss is a bit under 34K BTU's @ 15F.

I limit max combustion on my UFT-80W to 60% except when it goes down to near zero outside, then I raise it to 80% for a few days.

jumper

Hydrotherm was the low cost boiler in sixties and they lasted in your neighborhood nearly sixty years? Cost less than copper tube boilers in those days. How long do we expect modern efficient water heaters to survive? How much will we spend servicing them?

Also wonder if the supposedly superior SlantFin or WeilMcLain lasted so long?

ChrisJ

I get emails similar from my gas provider and they show my neighbors as being much more efficient than me even though I've compared gas bills with a few and found it wasn't true. Of course, that's only a few compared to many.

Those same emails try to sell me things to improve my efficiency. Coincidence?

NY_Rob

jumper said:

Hydrotherm was the low cost boiler in sixties and they lasted in your neighborhood nearly sixty years?

And plenty are still in service around here... at my neighbors house for instance... on both sides.
They were super simple and even had a cast iron flame bed. Of course no safety devices at all other than the pilot safety... but incredibly easy to service and generic parts (aquastat, gas valve, etc..) available in every supply house in the land.

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

I get emails similar from my gas provider and they show my neighbors as being much more efficient than me even though I've compared gas bills with a few and found it wasn't true. Of course, that's only a few compared to many.



Those same emails try to sell me things to improve my efficiency. Coincidence?

That’s my point.....along with gas companies selling insurance on water, and sewer lines....I get those.