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Cross Manifold: Any downside?

TAG
TAG Member Posts: 618
They look really slick -- other than being a bit more expensive if you want a simple manifold system .... if doing full control it's got everything other than the flow meters standard .. so, not that much more (have not added it up).

If I'm not missing anything -- going to use on current project.

Comments

  • rick in Alaska
    rick in Alaska Member Posts: 1,362
    I like the fact that they don't have to have separate actuators that eventually fail, and also the fact that it is easier and faster to wire. The rep actually came up here and showed us the manifold, and it looks very impressive.
    I would like to use one on my next job, but since I do mostly repair work, it might be a while.
    Rick
  • RetrosPex
    RetrosPex Member Posts: 56
    TAG: I'm watching all comments about Cross myself, because I'm getting ready to purchase for my home. I'm deciding between Cross and Caleffi. I like the idea that the Cross is just a ball valve, turned by a simple device traveling on a ball screw. But, I have no idea how long the small nubs that engage will last. Or the ball valves, for that matter. I suggested to Malcolm that they offer a spare parts kit.

    Everyone is scared of the unknown, or it at least makes one hesitate.
  • Harold
    Harold Member Posts: 249
    Spare parts could be handy for some items if it turns out to be problems. But they should probably wait until they see what is needed as the customer base increases.

    It would be good if they could come up with a way to keep the O-rings falling out when assembling the system connections going down. Perhaps something a little tacky. The fall out and can get pinched as well as being somewhat of a pain finding the ones that fell out. They do include a pack with 4 O-rings in it.

    The interface on the controller for the individual wire connections could use some better documentation. For whatever reason, I find myself confused about what wires go where. This is an existing installation being upgraded. What wires are in the walls are the only wires available between the Tekmar and the CM.

    The documentation is for thermostats. I am still not positive how the 3 possible inputs to a port act. I am going to have to be real careful because I am not comfortable with what I think is happening to the two remaining (White and Common) connections on the input ports of the CM. The Tekmar has sets of three connection points for each two relays. A common connection that can be jumpered to distribute power to any of the relays. For the existing system valve motors this would be 24 VAC.

    There will then be 24 VAC on the connection to the CM input port. This is not allowed because it would damage the CM input.

    So power is removed from all of the daisy chained connections and they are not powered.

    I think The Red wire is to go to one end of the dry circuit in the Tekmar. The white wire would then go to the common bus on the Tekmar that is normally

    I am using Tekmar controllers. They need to be rewired a bit to disconnect the 24 VAC supplied to each valve motor via a relay in the Tekmar. So that exposes one side of each dry contact relay to the CM controller ports via wires from the Tekmar. Then the second link on the CM ports needs to be connected to the the CM.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,868
    It would be helpful if they offered 5/8” connectors. The last job that I used one on had 5/8” pap tubing and we had to use two fittings to adapt to the manifold because they only offer 1/2” and 3/4” connectors.

    Other than that, I like the manifold.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,330
    It's fun watching it go back and forth like an old-style jukebox at the supply house.
    I have to say, I don't get it. Just looks like a solution desperately looking for a problem to solve.
    What is so hard about wiring zone valves to a controller? If one valve actuator goes bad, the rest of the house still heats.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,868
    Zman said:
    It's fun watching it go back and forth like an old-style jukebox at the supply house. I have to say, I don't get it. Just looks like a solution desperately looking for a problem to solve. What is so hard about wiring zone valves to a controller? If one valve actuator goes bad, the rest of the house still heats.
    If the power train fails, individual zones can easily be manually opened with a quarter of a turn.

    The Cross setup eliminates actuators and a zone control panel for about 50-60% of the cost.

    If you don’t need zoning, then I’d stick with a standard manifold.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 618
    edited December 2021
    We did end up using 3 of the Cross manifolds in my project. Two of the 8's and one of the 6's. The project is just now nearing completion (maybe). Memo to self: Don't build an odd, complex house with lots of details in a pandemic.

    The Cross Manifolds are expensive until you add up all the components should you need full control of all the individual loops. Everything is included with the Cross manifold and the thermostat connection is simple/ and straightforward.

    We had the system up and running last winter -- initially full open and as the winter progressed I played with it a bit. In my case we have about 3000sf of Warmboard for most of the house and 900sf of living space on a new slab. Not knowing how it would all work I wanted the possibility of doing lots of control. Especially the slab as I am only using one temp water. Also used heavy plates and 3/8 tubing to heat one large room that we did not remove totally. I wish Cross made 3/8 fitting as I ended up using a Bluefin Manifold set up w/ a single zone valve for the 11 loops and the fittings for the 3/8 did not work with the Viega Pex.

    The 1/2 fitting that come with the Cross have twin O rings -- so they work with any kind of PEX w/ crimp ring. It's a high quality set up and the valves are simply ball valves that move with ease should you need to do anything manually.

    Here is the very tight mechanical room last year -- showing two of the Cross. The other Cross and the the manifold for the plates is about 30 feet away in a remote area.