Convert To Gravity Return?

New England SteamWorks

We've started a new install yesterday with a pumped return. Naturally the pump decided to give up the ghost between bid acceptance and our arrival.

I am guessing the condensate tank and pumped return are not necessary, but there is always the nagging question of how it ended up here.

It is a 2-pipe system with convectors and traps. I can find no nomenclature to identify the system. EDR is 525. Complicating matters is that the ends of the returns are inaccessible (enclosed) due to a basement conversion.

Right now the boiler is operating by having the condensate return to the receiver, which then discharges it into a sump, after which an automatic water feeder comes on and adds fresh water to the boiler... Nuts.

So my thought is to convert to gravity. But there are no vents anywhere on the returns (at least that are visible). The only vent is the condensate tank overflow. I can find no original central venting point or Air Eliminator.

All of the dry returns drop into the wet return. Some have F&Ts, but 3 do not.

So it seems there would be a need for a lot of pipe work to add vents if it is returned to gravity.

I was thinking about removing the extra discharge plugs on the F&Ts to add venting there.

But in general, it's all kind of a mess here, so I thought I'd ask for opinions.

Thanks.

New England SteamWorks

A little more detail:



Looks like something was knuckle headed. Steam main number #1 heads left and makes a loop around the basement. It goes into the finished section and is lost. I think it comes back to the boiler room on the right as #3. But #3 is piped at the boiler right into the supply, when one would think it should be vented and drop to a wet return (end of main) at the boiler?

Maybe #3 is a third supply, however, can't tell with the finished basement, but it would seem redundant as a supply, given #2.

Something about how #2 & #3 are piped above the boiler looks off. Maybe this is where originally there was an Air Eliminator, and/or Differential Loop etc and they were removed?

It's important because I am trying to figure out how to vent, and I seem to be going in circles. There seems to obvious way...

Danny Scully

Is this a building or a house? Any reason you can’t create access where you need to determine pipe routes?

New England SteamWorks

It’s a house. And one part of the basement is finished, concealing all steam piping.

New England SteamWorks

Well, after watching for two days in 5 minute increments all the condensate continually dump from the condensate tank into the sump, while the feeder supplied all the make up water (almost funny, -but not quite when it's your job) it was time to make a decision, and resurrecting the condensate tank/pump lost. Make it work on gravity, or go home.

1st step (it's very cold at the moment and the owners are elderly) was install Plan B: Add valves to the condensate tank so should Plan A fail, we could go back dumping condensate in the sump until Plan C materializes (at least there would be heat):



Then install the vents called for in Plan A:








Once we did that, the condensate tank stopped discharging, and so the feeder stopped feeding. It was quiet. (Too quiet?).

But by the time we got all that done and the new boiler ready to shove over and pipe in place it was getting too late and we chickened out.

We've another boiler tomorrow and Thursday, so Friday is the day. Fingers crossed!





Thanks @Steamhead

New England SteamWorks

Discovered this today:



Anyone recognize as a steam component? We don't, and nothing otherwise is underground.

Steamhead

it's part of an old supporting stand- maybe for an old hot-water tank?

Danny Scully

I agree with @Steamhead. So any reason you couldn’t cut some access holes to figure out how it was/is piped?

EBEBRATT-Ed

Just wondering about drips with no traps or drips with traps buried in un accessable areas or ceilings. Is that a verticle underground condensate tank in addition to the Hoffman? tank?

New England SteamWorks

The finished portion of the basement is very elaborate and done in the French Chalet style, -so not cutting...

New England SteamWorks

But we screwed up our courage on Friday and connected everything and let 'er rip:







The condensate tank and pump lie nearby in ruins.

And guess what?

24 hours later it's still running....

A very nice Christmas present indeed for Yours Truly, who is looking forward to a few days relief from the field...

Steamhead

Looking good! Enjoy your break.