10 years of CO poisoning

Leonard

CO poisoning.
I assume it was low level, since CO detector did not alarm.

She was dealing with "mystery illness" for over 10 years.
Went from being healthy and working , to disabled and bed-ridden.
Doctors ran MANY tests, found nothing. "Cured" by contractors accidental discovery of shoddy exhaust work when she decided to renovate house.

http://www.icepop.com/indiana-mom-mystery-illness-learns-truth/19/
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Larry Weingarten

Hello, Reading the article, they state that CO is heavier than air. I understood it to weigh 97% of what air does. Hard to trust the "information" out there. Anyway, it's good the contractor came to visit!

Yours, Larry

EBEBRATT-Ed

I am surprised there are not more instances of this. Venting does not get the respect it must have.

Leonard

"CO denser than air" ... I caught that mistake too, typical news people getting the tech wrong. They must have looked up CO2.

CO is ~ 3 % lighter than air
CO2 is ~ 52% heavier than air
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-gravities-gases-d_334.html

CO being so close to density of air , other things like drafts , thermal air currents, and fans will likely determine what direction it it flows in.
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RayWohlfarth

I have heard more scary stories about long term exposure to low levels of CO. It is very scary

captainco

What percent of equipment today is vented to promote unstable and erratic combustion? 90%

Stupid rules are stupid rules no matter who writes them. There are still no valid or listed tests in any Code book to verify if equipment is venting correctly!!

Steamhead

captainco said:

What percent of equipment today is vented to promote unstable and erratic combustion? 90%

You mean, 90% of those not installed by Wall members, right?

captainco

Flue draft controls the air side of combustion. Every time draft changes, the amount of air to burner changes but the fuel remains constant. Other than oil equipment how often do we use draft control? Also, the flue must be connected to the equipment, not just in the vicinity.

Wall members are better than most, but how many control venting on all equipment?

Steamhead

captainco said:

Wall members are better than most, but how many control venting on all equipment?

Many of our jobs use power gas burners, with barometrics. But even on atmospherics, unstable combustion will show up on an analyzer. I know you're rather skeptical of analyzers, but if combustion parameters are drifting, you can see it on an analyzer.

I do plan on taking your class one of these days, Jim. I did Tim's classes some years ago and they were invaluable.

captainco

Tim is a great ally and instructor and I am glad he is out there.

I love combustion analyzers it is the miscalculations of efficiencies that mess everyone up. Yes, and for those properly trained they know to watch the readings the whole cycle, including the Light-off and Shut-down.

It would give me great pleasure to have someone of your talents and skills in class someday!

GBart

Many many years ago I went to a home for the annual maintenance on an oil fired furnace, as is the case in our area they had that and a gas fired water heater, I was in a hurry and didn't even notice at first that the water heater had no exhaust pipe, I started looking around for it, there wasn't even a place for it to go in the furnace pipe or chimney.

It had been there for years and never was exhausted, when I checked with the lady she had been sick forever and I told her to go the Dr and tell them what I found.

Other tech's at our company had been there for years and never noticed either.

Steamhead

GBart said:

Other tech's at our company had been there for years and never noticed either.

Can't fix stupid....................

delta T

Had one similar to that about 8 years ago, my dad and I go to a rental property to look at fixing a leaking stem on a tub faucet. The hot side was leaking, so I turned off the water to the water heater and suddenly noticed that about 2' above the top of the heater, the flue just stopped, then about 1' above that it kept going. No piece of pipe laying around anywhere, no evidence it had ever been hooked up in the past. We immeadiatly shut it off and asked the tenants if they had been sick, and both said yes we have had this nasty cold/flu thing for about a month now that we just cannot shake. Asked if any work had been done at that time and they weren't sure as it just when they moved in.

We told the tenants (two college age girls) that they should go to the doctor and get checked out pronto and to let them know that they likely had CO poisoning. We fixed the flue, checked it all the way out side and got the hot water heater back on, Checked the furnace for any CO leak and checked that flue all the way outside, then fixed the faucet.

Finally as we are leaving the owner calls us and we tell her what happened. She actually got angry at us for doing work that she did not authorize! We explained that the lives of her tenants were at serious risk and that she could be held liable. Her resposnse: 'well I'm still not going to pay for the repair'.

Some people.

Tim McElwain

Jim correct me if I am wrong but doesn't CO increase in density as the temperature goes down?

captainco

You are correct Timmie. Below 32 degrees CO does become heavier than air. This means on flat roof buildings the CO vented out the roof can migrate back down into the building. I have seen this a multitude of times.

Gordo

delta T said:

Had one similar to that about 8 years ago, my dad and I go to a rental property to look at fixing a leaking stem on a tub faucet. The hot side was leaking, so I turned off the water to the water heater and suddenly noticed that about 2' above the top of the heater, the flue just stopped, then about 1' above that it kept going. No piece of pipe laying around anywhere, no evidence it had ever been hooked up in the past. We immeadiatly shut it off and asked the tenants if they had been sick, and both said yes we have had this nasty cold/flu thing for about a month now that we just cannot shake. Asked if any work had been done at that time and they weren't sure as it just when they moved in.

We told the tenants (two college age girls) that they should go to the doctor and get checked out pronto and to let them know that they likely had CO poisoning. We fixed the flue, checked it all the way out side and got the hot water heater back on, Checked the furnace for any CO leak and checked that flue all the way outside, then fixed the faucet.

Finally as we are leaving the owner calls us and we tell her what happened. She actually got angry at us for doing work that she did not authorize! We explained that the lives of her tenants were at serious risk and that she could be held liable. Her resposnse: 'well I'm still not going to pay for the repair'.

Some people.

Ah landlords! I just love them to death.