My folks 2 piper

Sailah

So I'm up in Maine in the house I grew up in. 2 pipe system, original Barnes & Jones. Maybe that's where it all started with me.

Anyways I was discussing the steam traps with my dad and we walked down to the basement to have a look at the old girl. Much of the header is original as well as return piping. Still has the Barnes & Jones Condensator!

I noticed the pressure gauge wasn't reading and the end of pigtail was cold vs close to boiler. I put that on the list of things for us to work on while up up here for the next few days.

Despite my knowledge of steam traps I don't have a good sense as to proper piping of my folks system

There aren't many complaints and the system works well. We noticed the boiler sight glass rising all teh way to the top during a firing and then slowly settling back down. Water is pretty steady and not bouncy.

Any thoughts about the piping in general? Can get better shots. I did bring my ultrasonic test gear so we can test and repair any traps!!

Sailah

Couple more

EBEBRATT-Ed

Well, it's a case of it shouldn't work well the way it is piped............. but maybe it does.

1. Supply take off is between the boiler risers so you have opposing steam in the header.
2. Equalizer is not dripping the header but is dripping the steam supply. Looking at the header side view in the first picture, and looking from left to right the boiler take offs should be connected to the header then a tee with the branch feeding the system vertically and the run of that tee 90s down to become the equalizer.
3. Have to check the header size depends on the # of boiler sections

ethicalpaul

I'm super ignorant, but isn't that header awfully low?

EBEBRATT-Ed

Header should be 24" center of the gage glass to the header bottom. May or may not have that

Sailah

Thanks guys I'll do some checking and respond back. Appreciated

Dave0176

Well @Sailah I’m 100% sure all the steam traps are in perfect working order, however the near boiler leaves a lot to be desired, but if it works, it is what it is...........

Sailah

> @Dave0176 said:
> Well @Sailah I’m 100% sure all the steam traps are in perfect working order, however the near boiler leaves a lot to be desired, but if it works, it is what it is...........

What would you suggest they improve?

Neild5

The PRV is piped wrong, the release handle should be at the top not sideways. In fact it looks like it is sloped down allowing sludge to build up and prevent it from working properly

Dave0176

@Sailah that boiler should have 2) 2-1/2” risers to a 3” header and the system riser shouldn’t come off between the risers.

GW

My plumbing eyes are kicking in. Your water heater looks like it make be suffocating a little. Is that insulation blanket covering the breathing perforations?

What size boiler? As mentioned the piping isn’t good

Dave0176

GW said:

My plumbing eyes are kicking in. Your water heater looks like it make be suffocating a little. Is that insulation blanket covering the breathing perforations?



What size boiler? As mentioned the piping isn’t good

I’m going to guess SGO-6

Sailah

We discussed the piping, probably a summer project. There are no complaints.

I tested all the traps this morning at 5am (and set off the alarm, police etc. Lol). We found 2 bad traps so i replaced those. While removing the trap cover on 2nd floor we heard and felt a giant sucking sound of air. Must be the vacuum. Ended up swapping out 4 cage units, the internals were original.

I also removed pigtail and cleaned that out for them, was clogged.

House heats great no banging, no hammer no noise just quiet beautiful steam heat. Hard to make the argument for piping changes when it all works so well.

Fred

Depending on the age of the boiler, it may make more sense to leave the piping alone until it's time to replace the boiler.

BobC

i agree with @Fred, old piping does not like being messed with. If some parts are so bad you fear imminent failure don't be surprised if the project grows by leaps and bounds.

Bob

Sailah

Thanks gents. I think you're right. Despite piping looking like it shouldn't work the system really works well. Im up on third floor and felt the heat coming on at 5am. Totally silent, just a warm enveloping radiance. Made me feel like a kid again.

We swapped out a number of steam trap cage units and those tested perfect the next cycle.

My young kids were sleeping in my and my sisters bedroom. They both liked the radiators vs our forced hot dust.

The Steam Whisperer

Maybe Gerry Gill could come out and install a nice steam minitube system for your home.

Sailah

Ha I've thought about it. We just went through a new heating system install here and i will say it works extremely well. About the only complaint is dry air in winter but im going to install an Aprililaire in a couple months.

Retrofitting steam into our house would be a major undertaking.

I'd rather just go visit my folks when i get nostalgic!

Sailah

I was asking owner of B&J about Condensator since I really did not understand it. Thought it might be helpful to someone else down the road in a search.

Not surprising as those things seem to run forever as long as the boiler is run on Oz.

The Condensator and the Vent trap in the pictures are the early version. The vent trap is the end of the dry return. It has a one way valve that lets air out but will not let any back in as the boiler cycles. There is a float inside that will close off the vent if the boiler pressure were to get to high and back the condensate up to the ceiling. That way nothing will escape from the system and piss all over the floor.

The Condensator is a two way valve that should be 18” to 24” above the waterline of the boiler (there should be a mark in the middle of it to measure from). It sole purpose is the equalize the pressure from the header to the return side if the boiler pressure got too high and was pushing the waterline down and not letting condensate back into the boiler. As long as the boiler is running on Oz it will always be open to the vent trap above it but if the boiler pressure gets into PSI then the condensate will rise and trip a float operated valve that will close the port going to the vent trap and open a line to the header and equalize the pressure which will return the water level of the boiler to its normal level. Once it drops back down the float operated valve closes the port to the header and reopens the port to the vent trap/dry return to allow gravity to push water back to the boiler.

Note: If you follow the main it should split and go around the basement of the house. Follow those lines and they should meet at the farthest point away from the boiler. Where they meet there should be two thermostatic traps . Where they discharge will be the beginning of the dry return back to the vent trap and there will be a T that pipes down to the wet return so that you don’t push any condensate down the dry return. These are the two most important traps to maintain so that you don’t get steam coming out of the Vent trap and also so that they don’t fail closed and then you will have to push all the air through the radiators which will cause a longer cycle for the boiler.

The key is 6 to 12 oz for cut in and out on the boiler control. Then everything else takes care of itself.