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HELP! Oil Heater Keeps Locking Out

lifinfan
lifinfan Member Posts: 13
edited October 2018 in Oil Heating
Hello everyone, I desperately need your help.

My about 25 year old Weil-Mclain heater keeps locking out. When I push the reset button, it's working again, and working fine, until it reaches the desired temperature, then eventually locks again.

It's been like this for 2~3 years now. Meanwhile I simply pushed the reset over and over, but this time I'll be away during the winter, so it should not lock out while home is vacant. You know what happens if it does.

Previously the aqustat setting was Circulator 140(diff 140) and High Limit 200(diff 200). Now it's Circulator 160 (diff 180) and High Limit 180 (diff 200) and it's much better than before, locks out less often(but still does). Did tune up too.

Please educate me, thanks a lot in advance!

Calvin







HVACNUT

Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 18,966
    Not good. Not good at all. You really need someone (not saying it couldn't be you) who can find out exactly why it is locking out. Getting it going again with the reset button sounds like a problem with the burner or its controls -- but it would be well to check all the other controls and safeties while one is at it.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    lifinfan
  • lifinfan
    lifinfan Member Posts: 13
    Jamie Hall/

    Thank you so much for your reply. I've had more than 5 technicians take a look but no one could definitely identify the problem. They all say different things. Until I get one more technician to come over, what can I do myself?
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,595
    I cant see the burner completely. Is that a QB180?
    lifinfan
  • lifinfan
    lifinfan Member Posts: 13
    HVACNUT said:

    I cant see the burner completely. Is that a QB180?

    Me either lol I think it says 'A-B 868' on 'Boiler Model NO'...

  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,990
    HVACNUT said:

    I cant see the burner completely. Is that a QB180?

    Seriously doubt it. QB 80 didn't arrive until the Gold series came out. Probably a Beckett
    You need to get a tech out there who does nothing but oil burner service...
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,595
    edited October 2018
    > @kcopp said:
    > I cant see the burner completely. Is that a QB180?
    >
    > Seriously doubt it. QB 80 didn't arrive until the Gold series came out. Probably a Beckett
    > You need to get a tech out there who does nothing but oil burner service...

    Yes, I know that. It's why I'm curious.
    Its definitely not a Beckett.
    The delayed oil valve and top fed nozzle line was a giveaway.
    Maybe a Wayne Blue Angel.

    In either case, resetting the burner for 2-3 years and 5 techs scratching their heads is ludicrous.

    The R8184G primary is at least 20 years obsolete.

    I'm sure you've been near the burner at some point when the problem occurs. The burner fires, makes limit, and on the next cycle it goes into safety. Does the burner fire before it goes into safety, or just, pop after 45 seconds without the burner actually running?
    kcopp
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,690
    edited October 2018
    Get a good tech. Clean that boiler properly, remove the front, and clean that chamber out. May even need a new chamber if the old one is crumbling.
    A good tech will figure out if it's in the ancient aquastat, but it's more likely poor combustion, dirty flame sensor, or a faulty component (or a combination there of). All testable and fixable.

    It definitely looks like a QB180 to me (note the large plastic air band, the signature transformer, oil line coming into the top, and the Combi oil valve).

    Also it looks to me like your high limit is 190° and your low limit is set at 170°. But the dials are probably not accurate either.

    I also note 2 pipe oil lines and probably an oil-fired water heater?
    steve
    CTOilHeatDZoro
  • CTOilHeat
    CTOilHeat Member Posts: 54
    Looks like a QB to me, though they didn't make those burners for that boiler, that I knew.

    Hate to think someone thought that, or any Wayne, was an upgrade over something.

    No matter what your course of action, have someone come check on your house as often as possible. I tell this to everyone who leaves their house vacant, not just you.

    You could always winterize the house, by a reputable plumber, which would cost but if done properly will save you big time over a freeze up and leak while you're gone. But even in that case I'd have someone check the house.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,595
    > @CTOilHeat said:
    > Looks like a QB to me, though they didn't make those burners for that boiler, that I knew.
    >
    > Hate to think someone thought that, or any Wayne, was an upgrade over something.
    >
    So true. Some contractor purchased a package GO with the QB180, replaced with a Riello and pawned the QB off on this poor, unsuspecting fellow.
    Lots creeps out there.
    CTOilHeat
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,016
    Any good technician can fix it..........if he is willing to look for the problem. That is becoming more and more an issue
    CTOilHeat
  • lifinfan
    lifinfan Member Posts: 13
    HVACNUT said:

    > @kcopp said:

    > I cant see the burner completely. Is that a QB180?

    >

    > Seriously doubt it. QB 80 didn't arrive until the Gold series came out. Probably a Beckett

    > You need to get a tech out there who does nothing but oil burner service...



    Yes, I know that. It's why I'm curious.

    Its definitely not a Beckett.

    The delayed oil valve and top fed nozzle line was a giveaway.

    Maybe a Wayne Blue Angel.



    In either case, resetting the burner for 2-3 years and 5 techs scratching their heads is ludicrous.



    The R8184G primary is at least 20 years obsolete.



    I'm sure you've been near the burner at some point when the problem occurs. The burner fires, makes limit, and on the next cycle it goes into safety. Does the burner fire before it goes into safety, or just, pop after 45 seconds without the burner actually running?

    Oh I have never been near the burner when it locks out...because I don't know when it will lock out. It sometimes locks out after the first cycle once it reaches the limit, or it makes a couple more cycles. I'll try to video record it to see how it behaves right before and after the lock out.
  • lifinfan
    lifinfan Member Posts: 13

    Get a good tech. Clean that boiler properly, remove the front, and clean that chamber out. May even need a new chamber if the old one is crumbling.
    A good tech will figure out if it's in the ancient aquastat, but it's more likely poor combustion, dirty flame sensor, or a faulty component (or a combination there of). All testable and fixable.

    It definitely looks like a QB180 to me (note the large plastic air band, the signature transformer, oil line coming into the top, and the Combi oil valve).

    Also it looks to me like your high limit is 190° and your low limit is set at 170°. But the dials are probably not accurate either.

    I also note 2 pipe oil lines and probably an oil-fired water heater?

    Yes, it'a an oil-fired water heater.

    I had a technician do a tuneup recently but not exactly sure what he did. He brought a vacuum cleaner in and used it for inside cleaning, for one.

    I set the aquastat based on my research...is high 190 and low 170 no good? What's the optimal setting? Thank you so much for you help.
  • lifinfan
    lifinfan Member Posts: 13
    CTOilHeat said:

    Looks like a QB to me, though they didn't make those burners for that boiler, that I knew.

    Hate to think someone thought that, or any Wayne, was an upgrade over something.

    No matter what your course of action, have someone come check on your house as often as possible. I tell this to everyone who leaves their house vacant, not just you.

    You could always winterize the house, by a reputable plumber, which would cost but if done properly will save you big time over a freeze up and leak while you're gone. But even in that case I'd have someone check the house.

    Definitely, definitely. Thanks for the advice.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,595
    No more help for you until you tell us which burner is there.

    Is replacement on your radar anytime soon?
    I ask because the Boiler is huge and probably grossly oversized.

    Where are you located? Maybe someone here is close to you and can make the necessary repairs, or replacement.
    lifinfan
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,016
    Ducane burner maybe.
  • lifinfan
    lifinfan Member Posts: 13
    HVACNUT said:

    No more help for you until you tell us which burner is there.



    Is replacement on your radar anytime soon?

    I ask because the Boiler is huge and probably grossly oversized.



    Where are you located? Maybe someone here is close to you and can make the necessary repairs, or replacement.

    I found the manual and it says QB180. And replacement is not on my radar unless it's absolutely necessary (completely stop functioning, in other words) as I am planning to move in a couple years. My house has 4 zones and about 4500 sq so maybe not oversized. I live in long island, New York. Anybody nearby?
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 2,898
    I found the manual and it says QB180. And replacement is not on my radar unless it's absolutely necessary (completely stop functioning, in other words) as I am planning to move in a couple years. My house has 4 zones and about 4500 sq so maybe not oversized. I live in long island, New York. Anybody nearby?

    Keep hitting the reset and it will be necessary! Yes that boiler is way oversized unless theirs NO insulation and windows in the house.

    We just sold my Mothers Condo may she RIP. The sale went threw quickly and at asking price because of the relatively new and properly sized and maintained HVAC equipment!
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,595
    @lifinfan
    There are many of us here on Long Island. Click on find a contractor in my area link at the top of the page.
    I thought maybe your real name was Sinter Klaus at the Arctic Circle with 20,000 sq ft.
    That might need an 8 section WM.
    The QB180 was not designed for your boiler. Actually, as it turned out, it wasn't good for any boiler.
    The QB was designed and manufactured by Wayne specifically for the Weil McLain GO boiler which is 2 generations newer than your 66 series, so somebody pulled a fast one.
    Even at the time (they only lasted a few years because of numerous combustion problems) I don't believe they came with the R8184G 45 second primary.
    If your not looking to replace, and it MIGHT not solve your reset problem, (I bet dollars to donuts it will) consider replacing the burner to a NEW Riello F10, or Beckett AFG with a F220 head, or even a Carlin 99.
    Any Home Inspector worth his salt will right away recommend to his client that the boiler needs replacement and it will come off the top of your asking price anyway.
    Buried oil tank? That will be a problem as well, as a potential buyer will not be able to obtain homeowners insurance until its abatement, complete with certificate.
    lifinfan
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
    A real qualified technician will hook up a few different testing devices and run the system through a cycle, it's called detective work, if a customer says it has to be reset and you find nothing on the easy checks it's time to go deeper, they need to run pump pressure and vac tests and cad cell readings while the burner is running and see what's happening, something will show.

    If it's a standard old burner motor you could simply have a bad centrifugal switch.
    lifinfan
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 1,792
    That's definitely a QB180. That's not the original or correct primary control. Get a Honeywell R7284 universal primary control and set it up with the correct delay valve timing. Install a new cad cell, they are cheap enough.
    If you have further problems just remember that the burner is locking out either from the cad cell seeing flame when it shouldn't or its not seeing flame when it should. At that point get a pro who is familiar with the QB burner and competent with combustion analysis.
    lifinfan
  • lifinfan
    lifinfan Member Posts: 13
    Update: the guy who did "tune up($250 for 2 units) " a week ago showed up again. He checked here and there but couldn't pinpoint what's causing the lock out. He told me to replace primary, and I followed his suggestion. Paid $180 for the job, then he left.

    Right after he left I checked if it's working. NO, IT'S MUCH WORSE THAN BEFORE. Before the guy the boiler was running over 5 cycles, the last time it didn't lock out for a half day. After he replaced the primary, IT LOCKS OUT IMMEDIATELY.

    Also noticed that the primary he installed is not new at all--obviously used one.

    I called this guy to come back and he refused. I told him to void the check I gave him.

    unhappy.

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,595
    Your situation is very unfortunate and sad that a relatively simple fix (if your on site) cannot be properly diagnosed.
    Can you post a pic or the model of the primary he installed? Its possible it's not correct for your burner.
    Did he make any other adjustments? Nozzle or air?
    Do you know which nozzle is installed now?

    And apologies are in order. After checking my QB manual, I see they do have the 66 and 68 series listed for the QB. I never noticed that before.
    However, I believe yours is an 8 section (866) and the manual only shows applications up to the 666.

    Please click on find a contractor in my area link.
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 2,898
    Where are you finding these alleged techs, Pennysaver?

  • lifinfan
    lifinfan Member Posts: 13
    HVACNUT said:

    Your situation is very unfortunate and sad that a relatively simple fix (if your on site) cannot be properly diagnosed.

    Can you post a pic or the model of the primary he installed? Its possible it's not correct for your burner.

    Did he make any other adjustments? Nozzle or air?

    Do you know which nozzle is installed now?



    And apologies are in order. After checking my QB manual, I see they do have the 66 and 68 series listed for the QB. I never noticed that before.

    However, I believe yours is an 8 section (866) and the manual only shows applications up to the 666.



    Please click on find a contractor in my area link.

    He installed R7184B and now it's not running at all. Locks out immediately. I am living without hear for 2 days now. There was 8184G previously. It was running for up to 12 hours back then. He made everything worse and not being responsible. And you know what? I don't think he installed a new filter or nozzle when he did tune up. I only saw him doing vac and cleaning, not replacing or installing anything then. All due to my ignorance.
  • lifinfan
    lifinfan Member Posts: 13
    pecmsg said:

    Where are you finding these alleged techs, Pennysaver?

    Thumbtack lol
    pecmsg
  • lifinfan
    lifinfan Member Posts: 13
    SuperTech said:

    That's definitely a QB180. That's not the original or correct primary control. Get a Honeywell R7284 universal primary control and set it up with the correct delay valve timing. Install a new cad cell, they are cheap enough.

    If you have further problems just remember that the burner is locking out either from the cad cell seeing flame when it shouldn't or its not seeing flame when it should. At that point get a pro who is familiar with the QB burner and competent with combustion analysis.

    Thank you that's very helpful. There used to be R8184G and now installed R7184B. It' much worse with R7184B, I assume R7184B is not compatible too? Does it have to be 7284?
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 2,898
    Where is this boiler nightmare?
  • lifinfan
    lifinfan Member Posts: 13
    pecmsg said:

    Where is this boiler nightmare?

    Melville, NY
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 2,898
    Have you tried calling one of the bigger company's?
    GBart
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
    It sounds like you're at the point of going to court depending on how much money you are out, sounds like maybe you are getting plumbers.

    The 7184 is more sensitive and responds much faster than the 8184 so that could explain the issue, you need to hire a pro from here
  • lifinfan
    lifinfan Member Posts: 13
    Thank you all, now boiler is running like a champion. This guy I found on Thumbtack resolved all problems. He vacuumed inside, adjusted air pressure and then it's not locking out. I paid him double his request and now going to ask for refund from the previous ahole. Thanks all who replied and may your boiler be blessed.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,595
    Yes. I believe the QB wants 150 psi pump pressure.

    He got you up and running which is great, but, the question is, did he do a combustion test?
    If yes, keep him for annual tune ups and service.
    If not, keep looking.