Oil To Gas Conversion, three options
I bought my home last year and consumed what i consider to be too much oil last year. I have gas lines on my street so I think converting will be a great investment and pay for its self over the next few years.
This process has been more difficult then i expected and finding reviews on boilers is harder then i thought, i found one site that had a lot of reviews on a good amount of diff boilers but almost every boiler had awful reviews.
So I bring my inquiries here. I am leaning towards the wall hung COMBI units but I am not sure which to use.
Home details:
2000 sq feet, two zones, baseboard heat, 2.5 baths.
I have spoken with four companies so far and the details are below.
Company 1, Petro
Burnham ES2 boiler with leaving my current water tank
Company 2, Local plumber who came recommended.
He gave two options full details below:
*Combi Boiler Option*
Complete oil to gas conversion to include the following:
-All gas piping from new meter location to boiler room
-Demo and removal of existing oil fired heating system
-Supply and install of Navien NCB-E combi boiler and hot water heater
-Re-connect existing zones through new zone control
-Removal of existing above ground Roth oil tank
-All necessary piping, fittings, controls and wiring for above
-All town permits and inspections as required
*Natural Draft Option*
Complete oil to gas conversion to include the following:
-All gas piping from new meter location to boiler room
-Demo and removal of existing oil fired heating system
-Supply and install of Burnham ES2 series boiler
-Supply and install of Burnham AL50SL indirect water heater
-Supply and install of stainless steel chimney liner
-Re-connect existing zones through new zone control
-Removal of existing above ground Roth oil tank
-All necessary piping, fittings, controls and wiring for above
-All town permits and inspections as required
*Optional*
-Supply and install one Honeywell Wi-Fi thermostat per zone
-Supply and install Navilink for remote access and monitoring to Navien boiler features
Company 3, Sears
Kenmore(dunkirk) DCC-150 Combi
Also includes two nest thermostats.
Company 4, Local plumber also highly recommended and someone I had met a few times not knowing they were a plumber.
Highly Recommends LAARS Mascot FT
Still waiting on the estimate, he just came yesterday.
two of the companies on their own said Navien was awful without me even telling them i had someone recommend.
Plumber told me that parts for the LAARS were stocked locally which is appealing as i heard that is an issue.
Sears is a very appealing options but I question the quality of that work that will be done.
Any and all recommendations on these options would be greatly appreciated.
Comments
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Several comments. But before the comments -- we never ever talk specific pricing on the Wall. That said...
First, don't expect to save much switching to gas. You may, you may not -- but the prices are usually more or less competitive per BTU, and a BTU is a BTU. You might save... some...
Second, if you really want to replace your boiler -- from your choices I'm thinking hot water heat -- the place to start is with a heat loss calculation for your home. You can do a rough one yourself -- there are a variety of calculators on line, but Slant/Fin's is about the best. Your contractor should do this calculation as part of their boiler selection; if they don't, find a different contractor. Do not just go by what's there in terms of size.
Third, if you do decide to go for gas, you may be wondering about mod/con boilers. To see if there is any hope for that -- they aren't cheap -- you or your contractor need to figure out at what temperatures your existing radiation needs to run to meet the heat loss requirements. You may or may not have enough to justify trying to go with a mod/con.
Fourth, pay little attention to on-line reviews. They are self-selected and rarely reflective of reality -- particularly for heating systems.
Fifth, and most important: you are looking at a heating system. This is not plug and play. The most important ingredient is that the installer knows the equipment they are installing, likes to work with it, and will be there to service it when it needs service, which it will.
All that said, of the boilers you mentioned the Burnham is the best -- but I have no idea whether it is the right one for your house.Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
2 -
thanks for your response and input Jamie, I redacted the prices out.
Thanks.0 -
What is your location?0
-
Why do you say Sears is appealing?Cweis539 said:Hello all,
I bought my home last year and consumed what i consider to be too much oil last year. I have gas lines on my street so I think converting will be a great investment and pay for its self over the next few years.
This process has been more difficult then i expected and finding reviews on boilers is harder then i thought, i found one site that had a lot of reviews on a good amount of diff boilers but almost every boiler had awful reviews.
So I bring my inquiries here. I am leaning towards the wall hung COMBI units but I am not sure which to use.
Home details:
2000 sq feet, two zones, baseboard heat, 2.5 baths.
I have spoken with four companies so far and the details are below.
Company 1, Petro
Burnham ES2 boiler with leaving my current water tank
Company 2, Local plumber who came recommended.
He gave two options full details below:
*Combi Boiler Option*
Complete oil to gas conversion to include the following:
-All gas piping from new meter location to boiler room
-Demo and removal of existing oil fired heating system
-Supply and install of Navien NCB-E combi boiler and hot water heater
-Re-connect existing zones through new zone control
-Removal of existing above ground Roth oil tank
-All necessary piping, fittings, controls and wiring for above
-All town permits and inspections as required
*Natural Draft Option*
Complete oil to gas conversion to include the following:
-All gas piping from new meter location to boiler room
-Demo and removal of existing oil fired heating system
-Supply and install of Burnham ES2 series boiler
-Supply and install of Burnham AL50SL indirect water heater
-Supply and install of stainless steel chimney liner
-Re-connect existing zones through new zone control
-Removal of existing above ground Roth oil tank
-All necessary piping, fittings, controls and wiring for above
-All town permits and inspections as required
*Optional*
-Supply and install one Honeywell Wi-Fi thermostat per zone
-Supply and install Navilink for remote access and monitoring to Navien boiler features
Company 3, Sears
Kenmore(dunkirk) DCC-150 Combi
Also includes two nest thermostats.
Company 4, Local plumber also highly recommended and someone I had met a few times not knowing they were a plumber.
Highly Recommends LAARS Mascot FT
Still waiting on the estimate, he just came yesterday.
two of the companies on their own said Navien was awful without me even telling them i had someone recommend.
Plumber told me that parts for the LAARS were stocked locally which is appealing as i heard that is an issue.
Sears is a very appealing options but I question the quality of that work that will be done.
Any and all recommendations on these options would be greatly appreciated.To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.0 -
like the way contractor #2 spelled thing out in his quote0
-
0
-
> @Robert O'Brien said:
> Hello all,
>
> I bought my home last year and consumed what i consider to be too much oil last year. I have gas lines on my street so I think converting will be a great investment and pay for its self over the next few years.
>
> This process has been more difficult then i expected and finding reviews on boilers is harder then i thought, i found one site that had a lot of reviews on a good amount of diff boilers but almost every boiler had awful reviews.
>
> So I bring my inquiries here. I am leaning towards the wall hung COMBI units but I am not sure which to use.
>
> Home details:
> 2000 sq feet, two zones, baseboard heat, 2.5 baths.
>
> I have spoken with four companies so far and the details are below.
>
> Company 1, Petro
> Burnham ES2 boiler with leaving my current water tank
>
> Company 2, Local plumber who came recommended.
> He gave two options full details below:
> *Combi Boiler Option*
> Complete oil to gas conversion to include the following:
> -All gas piping from new meter location to boiler room
> -Demo and removal of existing oil fired heating system
> -Supply and install of Navien NCB-E combi boiler and hot water heater
> -Re-connect existing zones through new zone control
> -Removal of existing above ground Roth oil tank
> -All necessary piping, fittings, controls and wiring for above
> -All town permits and inspections as required
>
>
> *Natural Draft Option*
> Complete oil to gas conversion to include the following:
> -All gas piping from new meter location to boiler room
> -Demo and removal of existing oil fired heating system
> -Supply and install of Burnham ES2 series boiler
> -Supply and install of Burnham AL50SL indirect water heater
> -Supply and install of stainless steel chimney liner
> -Re-connect existing zones through new zone control
> -Removal of existing above ground Roth oil tank
> -All necessary piping, fittings, controls and wiring for above
> -All town permits and inspections as required
>
>
> *Optional*
> -Supply and install one Honeywell Wi-Fi thermostat per zone
> -Supply and install Navilink for remote access and monitoring to Navien boiler features
>
> Company 3, Sears
> Kenmore(dunkirk) DCC-150 Combi
> Also includes two nest thermostats.
>
>
> Company 4, Local plumber also highly recommended and someone I had met a few times not knowing they were a plumber.
> Highly Recommends LAARS Mascot FT
> Still waiting on the estimate, he just came yesterday.
>
>
> two of the companies on their own said Navien was awful without me even telling them i had someone recommend.
>
> Plumber told me that parts for the LAARS were stocked locally which is appealing as i heard that is an issue.
>
> Sears is a very appealing options but I question the quality of that work that will be done.
>
> Any and all recommendations on these options would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Why do you say Sears is appealing?
The price was right around where I wanted to be and they were including two nests.
The reason I didn’t book is because the guys who came were just salesman, I think k I’d rather work with a plumber who has come talked to me about the work and actually is installing the job. It’s nice to have interaction with who is doing the work, you can get a sense of them and who they are. Such as plumber 2. I am just uneasy about this recommendation on the Navien combi boiler.0 -
> @EBEBRATT-Ed said:
> like the way contractor #2 spelled thing out in his quote
I agree. And I followed up with additional questions and he gave a great response that was incredibly detailed. I am just un easy about navies boiler suggestion.0 -
I don't know about your fuel prices there, but around here most of the people who have changed to gas are paying roughly 30% of what they were paying with oil. There are online calculators you can use to compare fuel prices for your area.
Also, have you had your current oil boiler looked at to see if it is set up right and burning efficiently. It could be in dire need of maintenance.
Rick0 -
The only way you are going to save is by getting the most efficient and variable speed and outdoor reset and it is still going to take years to get your pay back.
You are talking Lochinvar, Rinnai, Bosch, Weil McLain Ultra, Navien etc
Cost to covert = $xx,xxx.00
savings per year = $xxx.00
x years = payback
you can forget the Burnham and Sears, the ES2 is 1950's technology with fancy controls, it is not very efficient, it is nothing more than a 1950's dry base boiler in a fancy jacket, AFUE is no longer considered valid for efficiency claims
go with the Navien0 -
I'm on Long Island also and I can vouch for the Laars support here. Rep is excellent.Cweis539 said:> @Robert O'Brien said:
> Hello all,
>
> I bought my home last year and consumed what i consider to be too much oil last year. I have gas lines on my street so I think converting will be a great investment and pay for its self over the next few years.
>
> This process has been more difficult then i expected and finding reviews on boilers is harder then i thought, i found one site that had a lot of reviews on a good amount of diff boilers but almost every boiler had awful reviews.
>
> So I bring my inquiries here. I am leaning towards the wall hung COMBI units but I am not sure which to use.
>
> Home details:
> 2000 sq feet, two zones, baseboard heat, 2.5 baths.
>
> I have spoken with four companies so far and the details are below.
>
> Company 1, Petro
> Burnham ES2 boiler with leaving my current water tank
>
> Company 2, Local plumber who came recommended.
> He gave two options full details below:
> *Combi Boiler Option*
> Complete oil to gas conversion to include the following:
> -All gas piping from new meter location to boiler room
> -Demo and removal of existing oil fired heating system
> -Supply and install of Navien NCB-E combi boiler and hot water heater
> -Re-connect existing zones through new zone control
> -Removal of existing above ground Roth oil tank
> -All necessary piping, fittings, controls and wiring for above
> -All town permits and inspections as required
>
>
> *Natural Draft Option*
> Complete oil to gas conversion to include the following:
> -All gas piping from new meter location to boiler room
> -Demo and removal of existing oil fired heating system
> -Supply and install of Burnham ES2 series boiler
> -Supply and install of Burnham AL50SL indirect water heater
> -Supply and install of stainless steel chimney liner
> -Re-connect existing zones through new zone control
> -Removal of existing above ground Roth oil tank
> -All necessary piping, fittings, controls and wiring for above
> -All town permits and inspections as required
>
>
> *Optional*
> -Supply and install one Honeywell Wi-Fi thermostat per zone
> -Supply and install Navilink for remote access and monitoring to Navien boiler features
>
> Company 3, Sears
> Kenmore(dunkirk) DCC-150 Combi
> Also includes two nest thermostats.
>
>
> Company 4, Local plumber also highly recommended and someone I had met a few times not knowing they were a plumber.
> Highly Recommends LAARS Mascot FT
> Still waiting on the estimate, he just came yesterday.
>
>
> two of the companies on their own said Navien was awful without me even telling them i had someone recommend.
>
> Plumber told me that parts for the LAARS were stocked locally which is appealing as i heard that is an issue.
>
> Sears is a very appealing options but I question the quality of that work that will be done.
>
> Any and all recommendations on these options would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Why do you say Sears is appealing?
The price was right around where I wanted to be and they were including two nests.
The reason I didn’t book is because the guys who came were just salesman, I think k I’d rather work with a plumber who has come talked to me about the work and actually is installing the job. It’s nice to have interaction with who is doing the work, you can get a sense of them and who they are. Such as plumber 2. I am just uneasy about this recommendation on the Navien combi boiler.To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.0 -
Nest thermostats are garbage by the way, they are a sales gimmick.
some info
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160121/05125933392/nest-thermostat-goes-internet-things-darling-to-cautionary-tale.shtml
http://controltrends.org/building-automation-and-integration/06/the-nest-thermostat-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/0 -
I have ruled out sears and Petro and am between the two plumbers.
1 recommends the Navien NCB-E but said he will install whatever I want
The other recommends the Laars mascot FT.
I am leaning towards the Laars plumber at this point as he was a bit less expensive and the parts are stocked locally.
I was really hoping to get some feedback into the reliability of these two units.
Thank0 -
Maybe your just generalizing, but is he a plumber, plumber, or a plumbing/heating contractor?0
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