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Loud oil boiler after new line

da29
da29 Member Posts: 4
Burnham oil boiler rsa110 (18 year old) with Beckett gun and I believe suntec pump. Boilers normal rumble always been loud since I bought the house but it's been consistent.
Few days ago, ran new 3/8 oil line to replace the old bare copper buried in the floor that's about 60 years old. Ran the new line up and over, replaced the filter with a Westwood. Friend of mine bled it and boiler ran fine. Noticed that the sound is stronger, and vibes through the house more plus there's a bit of a high pitch whine now. Oil tech cleaned boiler today and also noticed whine, said could be low oil level, I'm between 1/8 and 1/4, or try a check valve. Or worn out pump. Asked my friend and he also mentions a check valve one way.

Total run is 6 ft up to rafter, 21 ft horizontal, 6 ft drop to burner. No loops or anything but I'm thinking of trying a loopy loop at each end, cheater loop?
Right now it's all new flare fittings one long piece no couplings. Bottom fed oil tank.
Also just tried foam in between clips to isolate fuel line but no luck. Noise still pretty loud.
So is a full tank in a few days gonna fix this? Is the whine something to worry about? Old fuel pump on last legs? I have a service plan, but that'll replace only broken equipment not noisy ones.

Input appreicated.

Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 20,501
    You mention foam between clips. Take it further. That up and over oil line must not have a metal to metal or metal to wood contact anywhere along its length, except at the terminations. If it's touching anywhere, it will telegraph any noise and vibration from the burner into the whole house.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Brewbeer
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,871
    I think since you went from gravity fed to up, over, and down, there's probably still some air pockets if the pump wasn't power primed. The oil will start foaming in the fuel pump and create a vibration noise through the oil line as well as cause incomplete combustion.
    A Tiger Loop Ultra will take care of that.
    Get braided oil lines for between the TL and fuel pump. You'll also need a Suntec bypass plug.
  • da29
    da29 Member Posts: 4
    edited September 2018
    I took off all my clips and with just foam and rope secured the line and I don't seem to hear the problem anymore. So now I'm stuck on how to mount this without vibration.

    If I power pump the line can I avoid the tigerloop?

    My friend bled the line until we had a good 10 seconds of none fuzzy bubbly fuel oil at the fuel pump.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 20,501
    da29 said:

    I took off all my clips and with just foam and rope secured the line and I don't seem to hear the problem anymore. So now I'm stuck on how to mount this without vibration.



    If I power pump the line can I avoid the tigerloop?



    My friend bled the line until we had a good 10 seconds of mine fuzzy bubbly fuel oil at the fuel pump.

    Probably can avoid the tiger loop, although it won't hurt. And it probably isn't a purging problem. I've had several situations where an otherwise beautifully and completely done oil feed line made a horrible noise but stopped when free from touching anything solid. Figuring out a way to support it is going to be a problem, though, and take some ingenuity...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,152
    Get some "armaflex" or any type of rubber and clips should work. Your hearing "tank hum". Loops in the line will help. I hate Tiger loops....skip it
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746
    Tiger Loops rock-- period

    A house is like a speaker, any slight noise that hits the frame will reverberate UP through the cone, run the line on the floor if possible, without doing a vacuum you don't know if you're pulling too much but it sounds like it.

    Plastic mounts mounted to foam/rubber with the line wrapped in foam/rubber.........over head oil lines are a no no in residential due to noise and loss of prime.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,983
    GBart said:

    Tiger Loops rock-- period

    Not needed if oil line is installed properly (no vacuum leaks), power bleed.

    Not needed for a gravity job, same conditions.

    Needed for a high lift job to take advantage of TGSC (Total Gear Suction Capacity). But if you're exceeding those specs, then a booster pump.

    Used too often when not needed, instead of correcting the problem.
    I've never seen one installed per manufacturer's recommendation-properly piped/trapped.

    steve
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,871
    I agree that a Tiger Loop should never be used as a band-aid for a suction leak or high vacuum situation.
    But even on a new gravity fed oil line, correctly installed, a Tiger Loop only helps combustion by, of course aeration, and preheating the oil. Nothing wrong with that.
  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 542
    you could have a tech install a flexible fuel line between the pump and the copper fuel line.
  • da29
    da29 Member Posts: 4
    Two distinct camps of thought here haha.
    My other thought is a check valve a no no on this type of line? Bought one but may return it if it's going to do damage.

    Can an emptier tank cause tank hum? Or anything like that?

    I didn't want to do floor shot ,cause it's be a longer run like 45 ft and a small trench across a "doorway" (half finished bsmt that's gonna stay that way). I can hide the line in the corners and just bury a little. My ex oil friend talked me into overhead and am regretting a bit. Not wild about dropping 100 on a tiger loop.

    If I was to trench 4 ft of concrete, best way to do it?
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,336
    Sounds to me like the consensus is transmitted sound from the hard line. If it were me, I'd get a stick of something like this & use some ≈2" pipe hangers of appropriate style to hang it.
  • da29
    da29 Member Posts: 4
    Again, I appreciate the input guys.

    I get oil tomorrow so I'll see if a full tank helps. Will try the cheap pipe insulation with hangers too. If it still whines I'll probably rerun on the floor.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,983
    HVACNUT said:

    I agree that a Tiger Loop should never be used as a band-aid for a suction leak or high vacuum situation.

    But even on a new gravity fed oil line, correctly installed, a Tiger Loop only helps combustion by, of course aeration, and preheating the oil. Nothing wrong with that.

    Where is the air coming from in a gravity fed system with no vacuum leak?
    If the tank is in the basement, it really isn't warming the oil up much, only putting 23gph thru the strainer.
    If you need to warm the oil up (and technically you always do), attach a nozzle line heater. It's the only way to complete the 3-pronged approach to get consistent combustion (along with proper draft & and proper combustion air). Manufacturer's seem to always bench test at (I think) 100° fuel temp.
    steve
  • GBart
    GBart Member Posts: 746

    HVACNUT said:

    I agree that a Tiger Loop should never be used as a band-aid for a suction leak or high vacuum situation.

    But even on a new gravity fed oil line, correctly installed, a Tiger Loop only helps combustion by, of course aeration, and preheating the oil. Nothing wrong with that.

    Where is the air coming from in a gravity fed system with no vacuum leak?
    If the tank is in the basement, it really isn't warming the oil up much, only putting 23gph thru the strainer.
    If you need to warm the oil up (and technically you always do), attach a nozzle line heater. It's the only way to complete the 3-pronged approach to get consistent combustion (along with proper draft & and proper combustion air). Manufacturer's seem to always bench test at (I think) 100° fuel temp.
    wrong, because if you need to warm up the oil you need to warm it up before the pump, not after, the pump will still strain, using 2 pipe on an outside tank is ridiculous, it caused more problems, Tigerloop slows it down, you only pump what you burn not pump capacity, it is isn't required for inside tanks, in fact 2 line systems should never be used anymore
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,983
    edited September 2018
    GBart said:


    wrong, because if you need to warm up the oil you need to warm it up before the pump, not after, the pump will still strain, using 2 pipe on an outside tank is ridiculous, it caused more problems, Tigerloop slows it down, you only pump what you burn not pump capacity, it is isn't required for inside tanks, in fact 2 line systems should never be used anymore

    Sorry but you're not correct.
    Sure, putting ice cold oil thru a pump can be problematic, but stable warm oil temperature is most important for clean, stable combustion coming out of the nozzle, hence the nozzle line heater.
    I never mentioned using 2 pipe, although Ed may disagree.

    What is a Tigerloop 'slowing down'?

    Once again, with a proper installed oil line, gravity job, power bled, Tigerloop isn't needed, despite what the brochure says. Same applies for an overhead oil line, especially where the oil tank and the heating appliance are on the same level. After it's properly bled, what goes up, has to come down.

    Lift Job, nearing or exceeding manufacturer's spec for vacuum, Tigerloop takes advantage of TGSC to allow a higher lift, equivalent to a 2 pipe, but you still can't exceed manufacturer's spec for vacuum. If so you would need a booster pump.

    steve