NYC's Heating Upgrade Plan

D107

NYC will spend $200 Million to save $5 Million in annual heating costs. I'm searching for more information on this. 20 housing developments will be involved, steam and hot water systems 'modernized', and in some cases heat and hot water systems will be separated to allow repairs to boilers to be made without affecting hot water supply. Isn't that more expensive to operate?

A few years ago the city seemed intent on retrofitting the old steam systems--a sure way to save big $$.

http://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/072-18/mayor-de-blasio-invests-200-million-replace-boilers-upgrade-heating-systems-20-nycha

D107

Seems like a few years ago they were more interested in retrofitting:

https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2016/12/new-york-city-cracks-down-on-steam-heating/508925/

FStephenMasek

That makes the break-even point more than 40 years out, essentially never, as the new equipment will be worn out before then!

The Steam Whisperer

I didn't see in the article that they were converting steam systems to hot water or replacing the systems outright, just replacing the boilers and controls and some reconfiguration. The idea of separating hot water production and space heating seems utterly backwards. Like any large well designed system, there should be two boilers, each sized at about 2/3 the peak load. If one goes down, the second can maintain space heating in nearly all typical conditions, and freeze protection in extreme condition. Hot water service can also be maintained, and boilers can be serviced without taking down the whole system.

Jamie Hall

This is the modern big city, folks -- the questions are: does it play well in the press? Does it employ folks who will vote for me? Has nothing to do with return on investment or capital costs or efficiency or anything like that.

D107

@The Steam Whisperer (Agreed--didn't see anything about steam systems being converted to hot water.) We have heard that nyc's mayor wants to mandate retro-fitting heating systems in apartment buildings; that they may rip out the existing systems and put in PTAC systems. The concern is--in addition to tremendous cost and the waste of, in most cases, a solid steam heat infrastructure--will the existing electric grid be able to handle all this additional load and how efficient will that be? I'm trying to find mention of these plans online––such plans don't easily get translated into action.

"Today we're announcing that we've begun a series of mandates on the private sector of this city," de Blasio told a room full of presidents, prime ministers and ambassadors from around the globe this past April. "Not only will we retrofit all the public buildings of this city we will now require retrofitting in our private buildings as well." It's not yet clear exactly what this means.