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Boiler crackling ,popping, pipes shaking.

icy78icy78 Member Posts: 175
Am I correct in thinking , flashing of some kind in the boiler. Max gpm is 90. Actual is 80-90.
INLET TEMP is 190-197!!!
Outlet at low fire (1st stage of 2 stages) is 205. We're at 20psi.
Drying process.
824kbtu input natural draft.
2 weeks old.
There are some leaks so it has made up some water.
Is it possible to get scaling in so short a time? I would guess 20 rpm makeup/day.
Am I on the right track?
This boiler has some kind of electronic descaler on it. Big commercial type.

Comments

  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Member Posts: 4,385
    Assuming this is a water boiler that is trying to be a steamer.
    Are you pumping into or out of the boiler?
  • icy78icy78 Member Posts: 175
    edited May 15
    Yes water boiler. Pumping into. Its primary secondary.
  • icy78icy78 Member Posts: 175
    I cant take pics. Ill leave without a head lol.
  • icy78icy78 Member Posts: 175
    Pretty good guesstimate is only 100 gpm loop volume. Still hammers at 185 inlet right now. It's ugly.
    This was thrown in couple weeks ago to replace leaking boiler with 2 , 3/4fouled tubes, that a plumber ran a drill thru and puctured a bent tube.
    I came out later and adjusted the low fire with my analyser to get it running and not short cycling. Operating control is set at 220 per owner.
    I may have just answered my question with the comment if the plumber cleaning it. Hmmmm
    The engineer here says it's not scale because of his HydraFLOW 100 i. Descaler. Except the dedicated scale is now still in the water right?
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 8,268
    Uh huh. I'll believe it when I see it.

    In the meantime, yes, small amounts of scale can and will build up in a very short period of time, and you are so close to boiling that I'm not really that surprised you are having some problems.

    With that much makeup water the more obvious course of using RO or DI water and a chemical anti-corrosion treatment doesn't look too promising.

    Have you checked the TDS of the water? If your losses are as steam or vapour, and not as true leaks, you could also be building up the TDS -- which will also cause problems. Magic 150kHz zappers not withstanding...
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • icy78icy78 Member Posts: 175
    Thanks for asking about TDS samples. That reminded me to pull a boiler sample and a makeup water sample and I'll check those later.
  • icy78icy78 Member Posts: 175
    Sorry about the writing. Those are the numbers from the PCSTestr 35.
  • icy78icy78 Member Posts: 175
    So reading up on my posted numbers, I see the ph is too low, and the TDS high. The makeup TDS is higher than the system TDS. Is that because some of it has turned to scale?
    "According to ASME, boiler ph must be above 9.5 to ensure proper chemical reaction between calcium and magnesium ions and phosphate molecules"
    I'll have to check this boilers requirements.
    Bit lost on this stuff. It'll be interesting. I think the whole setup is a bit bogus but we'll see.
  • icy78icy78 Member Posts: 175
    So if I run a system pressure of 15 psig. That's 30 psia. Enginneering Toolbox calculator shows water boils at 250f at that pressure. So then the noises are from steam in/below the scale (which they say can't be there) and NOT from simply flashing because of high return temperature. Sound logical?
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 8,268
    Yup. Localised hot spots.
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • ZmanZman Member Posts: 4,163
    What model boiler is it?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • icy78icy78 Member Posts: 175
    edited May 22
    Sorry. Forgot to update.
    2 weeks in. Checkout this pic. I want to do a water meter, to measure and track how much they makeup. Chem flush. A dirt-mag separator. Filter. A boiler buddy.
    Or, chem flush, and demineralized water with spare water for makeup, and dirt-mag.. Fix all leaks as they occur. Lots of modulating valves on this process.
    Boss is going with a bypass filter and water meter and that's it. Oh well.
    Thanks for the help Jaime.
  • icy78icy78 Member Posts: 175
    > @Zman said:
    > What model boiler is it?

    It a Raypak H3-824
    I discussed with the factory to convert to modulating but no-go.
  • ZmanZman Member Posts: 4,163
    What kind of flow rates are you pushing? I know their delta series recommends high flow rates to minimize the issues you are having.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • icy78icy78 Member Posts: 175
    > @Zman said:
    > What kind of flow rates are you pushing? I know their delta series recommends high flow rates to minimize the issues you are having.

    93 gpm. By pump curve and checked by pressure drop thru boiler. Same day the new one was installed.
    Max flow is 90.
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