Replaced Burnham Boiler Banging and Clanging

dgreen007

A month ago I replaced leaking Burnham Boiler, installed in 2002 with same model Burnham. Installation was simple cut and replace. No new piping. Prior to new installation system was quiet and heating fantastic. Now Bangs like crazy.
I have inserted some photos of installed furnace. You can see piping marked (1) original main 1936, (2) for 1974 house expansion and (3) 1978 expansion.

Why do I have severe banging? Skimming issues? Risers not high enough... any thoughts. Thanks

SlamDunk

I would start with dialing pressuretrol to 2psi or less if you can get away with it. But you sight glass looks pretty dirty so you may have to skim. No short cuts there. bring a good book and take all day.

Actually, the water looks purple, did you use rectorseal 8-way?

Ironman

I agree with SlamDunk about the pressuretrol setting and skimming, but also know that your near boiler piping is wrong and that can cause the issues that you're having.

Look at the piping diagram in the I/O manual; the manufacturer put it there for good reason.

Fred

Looks like a counter flow system. Make sure the pitch of the mains didn't change with the new installation.
- Header needs to be at least 24" above the water line.
- Header is reduced where the boiler riser enters it and, if the equalizer were at the end of the Header (like the manual shows) there would still be wet steam but at least it could drain back to the boiler. The way it is, now, water just sits in that header and that will cause hammer.
-It's just piped wrong. If it worked before, you were lucky.

nicholas bonham-carter

That boiler may also need two risers, so look in the manual for sure.—NBC

dgreen007

Thanks, I will pass comments on to installer who is coming back. By the way he did add rectorseal.

nicholas bonham-carter

If the manual is still there, show him the required piping diagram.
Did he measure the radiators first, so the right size could be installed?—NBC

dgreen007

Pictures not clear but we do have two risers coming off boiler

dgreen007

This shows two risers

Double D

The manual may not show the required piping diagram for a counterflow system. The drips need to group below the boiler water line. You have no header, no equalizer and although not required for counterflow, you have no Hartford loop, something an insurance adjuster might want to see. This drawing should help.

SlamDunk

There is too much rectorseal in there. Drain and fill a dozen times and your problem will go away if you do nothing else. Don't add any more rectorseal after your last fill.

Search "the wall" for rectorseal 8-way and you will see too much of the stuff will cause surging and hammer.

Danny Scully

Where are you located @dgreen007?

dgreen007

Nashua nh

EBEBRATT-Ed

@dgreen007
too bad but it's all wrong. The sad fact is the installer that installed the original Burnham did it wrong, the second installer copied him.

Neither one apparently learned to read. It's in the manual in black and white.

I would get the manual and have the installer change the piping to match the manual. You will probably have to pay him to do it as I am sure he only quoted you a "boiler replacement"
And skim the boiler after making the changes. Also you might as well look into proper venting. Maybe you can get him to do it for cost. He should do that to make the job right.

Your fuel bill and comfort are at stake

newagedawn

when will people learn NOT to use burnham boilers !!!! story after story of them leaking and STILL people keep installing them?????????

newagedawn

i will qualify, the piping on this one is so not right, chop and swap is so not the way to replace boilers

Steamhead

newagedawn said:

when will people learn NOT to use burnham boilers !!!! story after story of them leaking and STILL people keep installing them?????????

Except for the MegaSteam.

SlamDunk

I love my Burnham IN-5!

8 flawless years and counting. Flawless except for the time I added 8-way........

SlamDunk

newagedawn said:

chop and swap is so not the way to replace boilers

Sometimes, wrong piping works well. And, if you’re happy with it, why spend xtra money to re-pipe?

If there are no safety issues , no comfort issues, no noise and no efficiency issues, why waste money on time and labor? It should work as well as the original. An unobserved leak and an auto feeder could cause any boiler to rust thru.

OP, flush out the 8-way and let us know if it improved.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@SlamDunk

I agree with leaving marginal piping ....if it works. Sad that two different installers can't read.

But he said it's banging like crazy. Probably was never skimmed

Steamhead

SlamDunk said:

newagedawn said:

chop and swap is so not the way to replace boilers

Sometimes, wrong piping works well. And, if you’re happy with it, why spend xtra money to re-pipe?

Wrong piping never works well- ESPECIALLY on steam. This example is probably producing wet steam, which reduces efficiency. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell in the field, except by how much better it works after repiping.

New England SteamWorks

Double D said:

The manual may not show the required piping diagram for a counterflow system. The drips need to group below the boiler water line. You have no header, no equalizer and although not required for counterflow, you have no Hartford loop, something an insurance adjuster might want to see. This drawing should help.

@Double D is correct on all points. His diagram is how we would do it, and how it should be re-done. Plus the skim port needs to be installed, also in the manual.

newagedawn

@SlamDunk
give it time my friend, give it time,soon,lol

SlamDunk

i wouldnt have done it that way. But, I understand why, if there were no issues, a home owner would plug and play. I have seen one worse in a family members home. it just works well. dont know why, but it does. And, it is fairly inexpensive to operate.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@SlamDunk
I am thinking if a boiler is oversized crappy piping may work. Steam flow is reduced for the boiler size so in effect it steams slower and has a larger steam chest

nicholas bonham-carter

It would be worthwhile to examine during these replacements the old corpse to find the cause of premature death. 15 years is a short life for a boiler.
Was it using a lot of water?
Was it fed softened water?
Was the waterline jumping around a lot?
Was the pressure within specs, (.5-1.5 psi)?
Were there any stray currents?
Were there extreme temperature setbacks?—NBC

jumper

Steamhead said:

SlamDunk said:

newagedawn said:

chop and swap is so not the way to replace boilers

Sometimes, wrong piping works well. And, if you’re happy with it, why spend xtra money to re-pipe?

Wrong piping never works well- ESPECIALLY on steam. This example is probably producing wet steam, which reduces efficiency. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell in the field, except by how much better it works after repiping.

NEVER say NEVER. Instead say far better chances with correct than incorrect.

Danny Scully

@SlamDunk, if a customer asked you to “plug and play” a steamer install and the piping was wrong, would you do it?

Dave0176

That piping is hard on the eyes.

nicholas bonham-carter

You could do the cut and slide, but with a disclaimer on the estimate. I would teach the owner how to skim it thoroughly though.
When you install a knock down boiler like that, can you see a lot of oil, and metal cuttings in the sections?—NBC

Steamhead

Danny Scully said:

@SlamDunk, if a customer asked you to “plug and play” a steamer install and the piping was wrong, would you do it?

@jumper , how about you?

STEAM DOCTOR

Would never install a boiler in what I consider a substandard installation. Went to look at boiler replacement a few years back. Old boiler was 250 BTU. Measured radiators and determined that homeowner needed 150. Homeowner was insistent that he needed a 250 . He was worried about not getting enough Heat . Told them that I would not install a 250. Needless to say I did not get the job. Very happy with my decision and would not do things differently.

SlamDunk

Danny Scully said:

@SlamDunk, if a customer asked you to “plug and play” a steamer install and the piping was wrong, would you do it?

I’m not a pro. I dont have to turn down work or warranty my work.

When I installed my boiler, I took the advice of this board and the mfr’s intruction.

That said, I appreciate how much money I saved building a 2” drop header with a proper hartsford loop. Even with a free Ridgid treader and pre made nipples and fittings, it is expensive. Not including my own labor.

I also know, if I had a good working system, I would not want to spend the extra money if I was happy and safe.

I also know, if you pour 8-way into a boiler, you hosed yourself.

I am all for doing it right. But, I am understanding of why someone would plug and play.

Jamie Hall

I kind of wonder if this installation isn't a rather good illustration of one of the quirks of steam heat. That is, we can (most of us anyway!) agree on how an installation really should be done. And we can usually agree on what a really poor installation looks like. But the quirk is this: even a relatively poor installation may appear to be working pretty well -- but be very close to the edge of working very poorly indeed. The transition from one to the other isn't gradual, and may be triggered by some really innocent appearing minor change.

Which is part of what makes playing with steam heat interesting -- and a bit of a challenge!

nicholas bonham-carter

Well said Jamie! It is very possible after all that the old boiler was not performing so well as a result of the missizing, and bad piping. And how would the homeowner know?
A new boiler with the same bad piping and dirty chemical laden water just pushed the system over the edge.
Hopefully he will report back with “the rest of the story”.—NBC

dgreen007

New piping and system skimmed... No longer banging, no surging.. so far so good. Thank you to all who responded

Steamhead

Well, it's better than it was...........

But it looks like there is a concentric reducer in the header, and the Hartford Loop is backwards. Take a pic from the side so we can see it from that angle.

Jamie Hall

Kind of validates my point about the relative forgivingness (is that a word?) of steam heat...

SlamDunk

Forgiveness?

nicholas bonham-carter

Silencing the water hammer is only one of the goals of correcting the improper piping. Getting the boiler to generate dry steam as economically as possible is another, perhaps equally important result.
The wet steam produced by the still improper piping with the elevated waterline of the backwards Hartford loop will increase the burning times, and therefore fuel consumption perhaps by 5-10%.—NBC

RomanP

This job needs a sawzall, installer that is experienced and can read and probably more $$$. Looks like a total “guess” job or “pipes are connected, so it should work” job

My 2 cents

Good Luck