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Replaced Burnham Boiler Banging and Clanging

dgreen007dgreen007 Member Posts: 6
A month ago I replaced leaking Burnham Boiler, installed in 2002 with same model Burnham. Installation was simple cut and replace. No new piping. Prior to new installation system was quiet and heating fantastic. Now Bangs like crazy.
I have inserted some photos of installed furnace. You can see piping marked (1) original main 1936, (2) for 1974 house expansion and (3) 1978 expansion.

Why do I have severe banging? Skimming issues? Risers not high enough... any thoughts. Thanks



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Comments

  • SlamDunkSlamDunk Member Posts: 373
    edited May 11
    I would start with dialing pressuretrol to 2psi or less if you can get away with it. But you sight glass looks pretty dirty so you may have to skim. No short cuts there. bring a good book and take all day.

    Actually, the water looks purple, did you use rectorseal 8-way?
  • IronmanIronman Member Posts: 4,238
    I agree with SlamDunk about the pressuretrol setting and skimming, but also know that your near boiler piping is wrong and that can cause the issues that you're having.

    Look at the piping diagram in the I/O manual; the manufacturer put it there for good reason.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • FredFred Member Posts: 6,486
    edited May 11
    Looks like a counter flow system. Make sure the pitch of the mains didn't change with the new installation.
    - Header needs to be at least 24" above the water line.
    - Header is reduced where the boiler riser enters it and, if the equalizer were at the end of the Header (like the manual shows) there would still be wet steam but at least it could drain back to the boiler. The way it is, now, water just sits in that header and that will cause hammer.
    -It's just piped wrong. If it worked before, you were lucky.
  • nicholas bonham-carternicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 7,183
    That boiler may also need two risers, so look in the manual for sure.—NBC
  • dgreen007dgreen007 Member Posts: 6
    Thanks, I will pass comments on to installer who is coming back. By the way he did add rectorseal.
  • nicholas bonham-carternicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 7,183
    If the manual is still there, show him the required piping diagram.
    Did he measure the radiators first, so the right size could be installed?—NBC
  • dgreen007dgreen007 Member Posts: 6
    Pictures not clear but we do have two risers coming off boiler
  • dgreen007dgreen007 Member Posts: 6


    This shows two risers
  • Double DDouble D Member Posts: 234
    The manual may not show the required piping diagram for a counterflow system. The drips need to group below the boiler water line. You have no header, no equalizer and although not required for counterflow, you have no Hartford loop, something an insurance adjuster might want to see. This drawing should help.
  • SlamDunkSlamDunk Member Posts: 373
    edited May 11
    There is too much rectorseal in there. Drain and fill a dozen times and your problem will go away if you do nothing else. Don't add any more rectorseal after your last fill.

    Search "the wall" for rectorseal 8-way and you will see too much of the stuff will cause surging and hammer.
  • Danny ScullyDanny Scully Member Posts: 943
    Where are you located @dgreen007?
  • dgreen007dgreen007 Member Posts: 6
    Nashua nh
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 3,986
    @dgreen007
    too bad but it's all wrong. The sad fact is the installer that installed the original Burnham did it wrong, the second installer copied him.

    Neither one apparently learned to read. It's in the manual in black and white.

    I would get the manual and have the installer change the piping to match the manual. You will probably have to pay him to do it as I am sure he only quoted you a "boiler replacement"
    And skim the boiler after making the changes. Also you might as well look into proper venting. Maybe you can get him to do it for cost. He should do that to make the job right.

    Your fuel bill and comfort are at stake
  • newagedawnnewagedawn Member Posts: 549
    when will people learn NOT to use burnham boilers !!!! story after story of them leaking and STILL people keep installing them?????????
    "The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
  • newagedawnnewagedawn Member Posts: 549
    i will qualify, the piping on this one is so not right, chop and swap is so not the way to replace boilers
    "The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 12,109

    when will people learn NOT to use burnham boilers !!!! story after story of them leaking and STILL people keep installing them?????????

    Except for the MegaSteam.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • SlamDunkSlamDunk Member Posts: 373
    edited May 12
    I love my Burnham IN-5!

    8 flawless years and counting. Flawless except for the time I added 8-way........
  • SlamDunkSlamDunk Member Posts: 373

    chop and swap is so not the way to replace boilers

    Sometimes, wrong piping works well. And, if you’re happy with it, why spend xtra money to re-pipe?

    If there are no safety issues , no comfort issues, no noise and no efficiency issues, why waste money on time and labor? It should work as well as the original. An unobserved leak and an auto feeder could cause any boiler to rust thru.

    OP, flush out the 8-way and let us know if it improved.

  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 3,986
    @SlamDunk

    I agree with leaving marginal piping ....if it works. Sad that two different installers can't read.

    But he said it's banging like crazy. Probably was never skimmed
  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 12,109
    SlamDunk said:

    chop and swap is so not the way to replace boilers

    Sometimes, wrong piping works well. And, if you’re happy with it, why spend xtra money to re-pipe?
    Wrong piping never works well- ESPECIALLY on steam. This example is probably producing wet steam, which reduces efficiency. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell in the field, except by how much better it works after repiping.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • New England SteamWorksNew England SteamWorks Member Posts: 1,041
    Double D said:

    The manual may not show the required piping diagram for a counterflow system. The drips need to group below the boiler water line. You have no header, no equalizer and although not required for counterflow, you have no Hartford loop, something an insurance adjuster might want to see. This drawing should help.

    @Double D is correct on all points. His diagram is how we would do it, and how it should be re-done. Plus the skim port needs to be installed, also in the manual.
    Serving Rhode Island & Eastern Massachusetts
    Old Houses & Steam Heat Our Specialty
    newenglandsteamworks.com
  • newagedawnnewagedawn Member Posts: 549
    @SlamDunk
    give it time my friend, give it time,soon,lol
    "The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
  • SlamDunkSlamDunk Member Posts: 373
    edited May 13
    i wouldnt have done it that way. But, I understand why, if there were no issues, a home owner would plug and play. I have seen one worse in a family members home. it just works well. dont know why, but it does. And, it is fairly inexpensive to operate.
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 3,986
    @SlamDunk
    I am thinking if a boiler is oversized crappy piping may work. Steam flow is reduced for the boiler size so in effect it steams slower and has a larger steam chest
  • nicholas bonham-carternicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 7,183
    It would be worthwhile to examine during these replacements the old corpse to find the cause of premature death. 15 years is a short life for a boiler.
    Was it using a lot of water?
    Was it fed softened water?
    Was the waterline jumping around a lot?
    Was the pressure within specs, (.5-1.5 psi)?
    Were there any stray currents?
    Were there extreme temperature setbacks?—NBC
  • jumperjumper Member Posts: 1,200
    Steamhead said:

    SlamDunk said:

    chop and swap is so not the way to replace boilers

    Sometimes, wrong piping works well. And, if you’re happy with it, why spend xtra money to re-pipe?
    Wrong piping never works well- ESPECIALLY on steam. This example is probably producing wet steam, which reduces efficiency. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell in the field, except by how much better it works after repiping.
    NEVER say NEVER. Instead say far better chances with correct than incorrect.
  • Danny ScullyDanny Scully Member Posts: 943
    @SlamDunk, if a customer asked you to “plug and play” a steamer install and the piping was wrong, would you do it?
  • Dave0176Dave0176 Member Posts: 785
    That piping is hard on the eyes.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating & Cooling 732-266-5386
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving most of NJ
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter




    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
  • nicholas bonham-carternicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 7,183
    You could do the cut and slide, but with a disclaimer on the estimate. I would teach the owner how to skim it thoroughly though.
    When you install a knock down boiler like that, can you see a lot of oil, and metal cuttings in the sections?—NBC
  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 12,109

    @SlamDunk, if a customer asked you to “plug and play” a steamer install and the piping was wrong, would you do it?

    @jumper , how about you?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • STEAM DOCTORSTEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 761
    Would never install a boiler in what I consider a substandard installation. Went to look at boiler replacement a few years back. Old boiler was 250 BTU. Measured radiators and determined that homeowner needed 150. Homeowner was insistent that he needed a 250 . He was worried about not getting enough Heat . Told them that I would not install a 250. Needless to say I did not get the job. Very happy with my decision and would not do things differently.
  • SlamDunkSlamDunk Member Posts: 373
    edited May 13

    @SlamDunk, if a customer asked you to “plug and play” a steamer install and the piping was wrong, would you do it?

    I’m not a pro. I dont have to turn down work or warranty my work.

    When I installed my boiler, I took the advice of this board and the mfr’s intruction.

    That said, I appreciate how much money I saved building a 2” drop header with a proper hartsford loop. Even with a free Ridgid treader and pre made nipples and fittings, it is expensive. Not including my own labor.

    I also know, if I had a good working system, I would not want to spend the extra money if I was happy and safe.

    I also know, if you pour 8-way into a boiler, you hosed yourself.

    I am all for doing it right. But, I am understanding of why someone would plug and play.
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 8,268
    I kind of wonder if this installation isn't a rather good illustration of one of the quirks of steam heat. That is, we can (most of us anyway!) agree on how an installation really should be done. And we can usually agree on what a really poor installation looks like. But the quirk is this: even a relatively poor installation may appear to be working pretty well -- but be very close to the edge of working very poorly indeed. The transition from one to the other isn't gradual, and may be triggered by some really innocent appearing minor change.

    Which is part of what makes playing with steam heat interesting -- and a bit of a challenge!
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • nicholas bonham-carternicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 7,183
    Well said Jamie! It is very possible after all that the old boiler was not performing so well as a result of the missizing, and bad piping. And how would the homeowner know?
    A new boiler with the same bad piping and dirty chemical laden water just pushed the system over the edge.
    Hopefully he will report back with “the rest of the story”.—NBC
  • dgreen007dgreen007 Member Posts: 6


    New piping and system skimmed... No longer banging, no surging.. so far so good. Thank you to all who responded
  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 12,109
    edited May 18
    Well, it's better than it was...........

    But it looks like there is a concentric reducer in the header, and the Hartford Loop is backwards. Take a pic from the side so we can see it from that angle.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 8,268
    Kind of validates my point about the relative forgivingness (is that a word?) of steam heat...
    Jamie



    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.



    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • SlamDunkSlamDunk Member Posts: 373
    Forgiveness?
  • nicholas bonham-carternicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 7,183
    Silencing the water hammer is only one of the goals of correcting the improper piping. Getting the boiler to generate dry steam as economically as possible is another, perhaps equally important result.
    The wet steam produced by the still improper piping with the elevated waterline of the backwards Hartford loop will increase the burning times, and therefore fuel consumption perhaps by 5-10%.—NBC
  • RomanPRomanP Member Posts: 98
    This job needs a sawzall, installer that is experienced and can read and probably more $$$. Looks like a total “guess” job or “pipes are connected, so it should work” job

    My 2 cents

    Good Luck
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