Near boiler piping layout

Wierling

Hello, I am new forum user and new to Dan's very informative steam books, am in a new "old" house with steam heat and experiencing water hammer and seemingly high heat bills trying to find any obvious issues. I am curious about the piping layout in my system which seems odd as I haven't seen any similar layouts before. Anyone know if this is normal? All the layouts I've seen have the equalizer after the risers, not before.. Thanks

nicholas bonham-carter

The equalizer looks to be on the wrong end of the header, which probably will blow water up with the steam. It looks like the installer did a nice drop header, but got turned around as far as the connections.
What diameter are the risers coming out of the boiler? Download the manual for the boiler, and verify that they are large enough.
Check the pressure, and keep it below 1.5 psi. A low pressure gauge, (0-3 psi is useful).
Does the water look clean, and clear?
Check the main venting, and make sure it is adequate.
When the supply piping has been rectified with the equalizer on the other end, some good pipe insulation will be necessary.—NBC

Wierling

Thanks. I thought maybe the same. I believe risers are 3", I'll look into manual next. Only 2 main vents I can find, one seems very active and the other I can barely notice any air coming out, it may be clogged so I want to remove it and check.

MilanD

Assuming boiler is sized properly, that venting is adequate and balanced, and that hammer happens only at the boiler, it's the equalizer on the wrong side, and colliding water and steam in the header. This will make for very wet steam (poor quality) and explain your high fuel bill.

newagedawn

check the vents, some have probably failed, this would cause water hammer and big fuel bills, also when was it last tuned up? pics of the return would help, but near boiler piping looks good

New England SteamWorks

Nice effort, but no cigar...

Equalizer on the wrong end. Main venting inadequate.

Fred

Those risers out of the boiler are probably 2", maybe 2.5" they are as large as the boiler tappings allow and are fine. That boiler looks like a model 411 or 412, which is a 25 to 35 year old boiler. The piping looks much newer. When was the near boiler piping done? As noted by others, the equalizer is on the wrong end of the header. That is one problem but it also looks like the header is slightly pitched away from the equalizer. That too will allow water to pool and cause hammer. If you can get the equalizer moved to the other end of the header, the pitch will be correct and the hammer will likely go away.
That's a big boiler. How closely does the Sq. Ft. of steam output match the total EDR of the connected radiators? This must be a large house, with a lot of radiation, or the boiler is way oversized. I'm guessing the boiler is around 866 Sq. Ft. of steam output. Check the plate on the boiler cabinet. Also, even though a main vent may be working, it still may be way less than needed to vent the air out of the vents quickly. Good main venting will allow air out quickly and reduce the amount of time the boiler runs just pushing air out, before it can start sending steam to the radiators. That reduced run time save big fuel dollars.

Wierling

Thanks for comments.. glad I wasn't the only one that thinks equalizer is on wrong side. to answer last post, it is a big boiler and big house.. 3 floors ~3300 sq ft. The pitch of the header in photo is an optical illusion, I thought it was pitched wrong way too but I checked with a level and it is pitched toward equalizer (as I would expect it to). Someone earlier asked for a photo of return lines so attaching one more. When I get some time this weekend I'll dig up manual, model, edr output, etc.. Winter (thankfully) winding down but I hope to get this addressed before next winter to avoid $650 month heating bills.

the_donut

I bet that garden hose is brittle from temperature.

MilanD

With this last picture, you also aught to check where your boiler water level is vs all the drips connecting into one another vs your op pressure. Judging by the pic, and it may be an illusion from the angle taken, a few of the els connecting the drips may be at water line or higher, and that too may be knocking... If so, you will need to separate all those drips and connect them at the floor level. Btw, what is your pressuretrol set at and have you confirmed it with a low-pressure gauge?

Fred

I think all of his drips are below the boiler water line, however, the Hartford loop looks like it may be above the water line and that could cause hammer (hard to tell from the angle of this last picture). I'll be interested in the size of that boiler. I have a 500 sq. ft home with 700 EDR and a boiler that I'm guessing is about the same size as that one and it is still over sized. That, by itself won't cause hammer but will cause a lot of short cycling if not properly managed. My average winter gas bill is about $325.00/month but that can only be compared to yours based on gas rates, average outdoor temps, where you set your Thermostat and how tight your envelope is. My home has about 12" of blown insulation in the attic but side walls are 3 brick thick with no insulation. All mains and near boiler piping is insulated.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Nice job on the header but it is piped wrong. However @Wierling does not say where the hammering is coming from.

With the drop header pitched the correct way it may work ok. Another case of non textbook piping that may work

Dave0176

Don’t understand why they had to weld the header it’s only 4”? Anyway yes the equalizer is at the wrong end, and since it’s a Burnham the risers would be 2”.

Dave0176

Wierling said:

Thanks for comments.. glad I wasn't the only one that thinks equalizer is on wrong side. to answer last post, it is a big boiler and big house.. 3 floors ~3300 sq ft. The pitch of the header in photo is an optical illusion, I thought it was pitched wrong way too but I checked with a level and it is pitched toward equalizer (as I would expect it to). Someone earlier asked for a photo of return lines so attaching one more. When I get some time this weekend I'll dig up manual, model, edr output, etc.. Winter (thankfully) winding down but I hope to get this addressed before next winter to avoid $650 month heating bills.

You may have a big house but that’s a BIG boiler. If they didn’t size it to the radiators by measuring all the radiators and coming up with an EDR, then you will also experience some what your going through.

Wierling

Actually, the center waterline looks to be at the same level or just below the hartford loop el.. according to book it should be 2" above the el so guess that is another issue. Attaching a few more pics along with boiler stamp, looks to be 216,000 btuh. I need to watch boiler during a full cycle to find source of hammering but when I've heard it it's been upstairs.
Thanks for replies.

Wierling

I've only been at house 3 months but when moved here, the pressuretrol was set at 4psi cut-in (with 1.5psi differential). I tried setting it at 0.5psi cut-in but boiler wouldn't stay on.. I finally settled at about 2psi cut-in.

Fred

Wierling said:

Actually, the center waterline looks to be at the same level or just below the hartford loop el.. according to book it should be 2" above the el so guess that is another issue. Attaching a few more pics along with boiler stamp, looks to be 216,000 btuh. I need to watch boiler during a full cycle to find source of hammering but when I've heard it it's been upstairs.

Thanks for replies.

The output of that boiler is actually 288,00 BTU, 900 Sq.Ft. of steam. Right at my original guess at about 866 Sq. Ft. The 216, 000 BTU number you are looking at, on the boiler plate is after 33% of the boiler's capacity is reserved for piping and Pick-up.

The 900 Sq. Ft. Number is the important number that needs to be compared to your total Radiator EDR. You need to calculate the Total Radiator EDR to compare that number with the 900 Sq. Ft. I'm almost certain the boiler is way too large. We can help you calculate tthe Radiator EDR or you can buy Dan's book, here at the store: "Every Darn Radiator".
On that boiler, you can raise the Normal water level to 2/3's to 3/4's full. I keep mine at about 3/4's full. That may cover your Hartford loop and be a quick fix for that problem. I suspect some hammer may be coming from that exposed loop and may radiate through the pipes.

Wierling

Measured my EDR today and it is roughly 700 sq ft.. so boiler def seems oversized. Thanks Everyone for the comments. As it turns out, the boiler has an internal hole now so will be replacing soon with a more appropriately sized boiler.. and hopefully fix some of the oddities in the near boiler piping while at it ..

EBEBRATT-Ed

Hope you can find a good steam pro to do the job. Most important

Dave0176

According to the contractor sticker on your boiler it would seem your in the Boston area, maybe give @New England SteamWorks a call you aren’t going to find any better.

Wierling

Thanks, yes I've commissioned New England Steamworks for the new boiler, will report back in a few weeks when it's done!