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How Should a ModCon Boiler Use a 1/25 hp ECM Pump with 160 Gallon 4-Coil Solar Assist Storage Tank?

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Comments

  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    edited March 2018
    @Rich @SuperJ @GroundUp @Zman @Rich @SuperJ @Jamie Hall @hot rod

    Thank you for your comments! They have helped me recast my thinking on this subject.

    This is what I am coming up with for layout! What do you guys think now that we have gone over this project?

    Any changes or ideas that we have not discussed?

    What do you see that I might do to make this 'arrangement' work better?

    Here is a new schematic and list of items being considered for pumping and control aspect of emitter loop.

    Thanks again for your help in clearing up my foggy if not 'circuitous' thinking. Chuckle!

    @TCTOPPS
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  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    edited March 2018
    @Rich @SuperJ @GroundUp @Zman @Rich @SuperJ @Jamie Hall @hot rod

    Would you invest in Honeywell HR90 TRV's? Are they just a gimmick? Four of them would add another $340 dollars to project. I cringe!

    As you can see I am doing this project for the 'Comfort' and options for additional heating of the home! (A happy wife makes for a happy home! Ha!)

    ...Some Savings in Heat Costs? Yes! I am thinking 80% to 90% DHW cost reduction. The space heat savings of course are going to depend on my 'BTU' usage which I was thinking would be 30% savings maybe less with best use in shoulder months. I will have to redo my heat loss to be more accurate with all the other upgrades we have made over the years.

    The entire project has been more a play toward re-sale value and home insurance reduction because of new heating system.

    Center Point Energy in Minnesota also offers a $500 rebate on the Westinghouse MonCon Combi boiler! That is a considerable amount. My current DHW is 10 years old and the forced air furnace is now 15 years.

    Also I enjoy the tech and system integration.

    Do not forget the 30% Federal tax credits on solar part of system. They can be utilized regardless selling or staying at location. So all in all the project is not a 'bad' investment? It has been an enjoyable DIY project. One in which I hope will be at a pro-consumer / contractor level of installation.

    What do you guys think?

    @TCTOPPS
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    @hot rod

    Are there free versions of the simulation program available to DIY? I will check on T-sol.

    Thanks
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    edited March 2018
    @hot rod

    I just did a free down load of T-sol. Thanks for the link! Oh by the way thanks for running the program with results. I appreciate it.

    Are there schematic programs for layouts too?

    The program seems a little buggy. I have had to enter info several times. I think the simulation part of program is making changes that are interrupting the discovery process.

    There are a lot of schematics that interact with the calculations. It's a nice feature. It would be nice to have American manufacturers listed too. I question the database; but found my location near by for the in put.

    There is a 31 free trial. It looks like their cost is way to much to pay. I have to print screen to get any info out of it. There a few charts that can be copied and pasted.

    @TCTOPPS
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,561
    As for the TRV's, it really depends on the layout. If it makes sense to use them as room t-stats then, Yes. With delta P circs, you can just let the TRV do it's thing, Euro style.

    On your drawing, you have the circ pumping towards your expansion tank, not a good idea. I would put it on the supply side, pumping away...
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    SuperJ
  • SuperJ
    SuperJ Member Posts: 609
    edited March 2018
    Ditto, on the pumping, pump away from the boiler towards your manifold, with the expansion tank on the suction side of the pump.
    Save the money on the programmable TRVs and buy a good air separator to go between the pump and boiler too. You can attach your expansion tank at the same point.

    Those are fancy programmable electronic TRV's. Not sure if the are necessary or not. I would tend to use basic $30 liquid filled TRV's and upgrade where necessary in the future. Depending on the room and thermal mass, setbacks aren't always a good idea. You can also do a night setback with your water temps, and just let mechanical TRVs do their thing.
    TCTOPPS
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    edited March 2018
    @Zman @SuperJ

    In this layout i will be placing it after the expansion tank connected to the air bleeder. Just before manifold... After the different arrangements I forgot to put it back in position.

    Why could the pump be just before the boiler but after the expansion tank and storage tanks? Also I understood that it is better for the pumps to push rather than pull in. Since then it would be pulling in from the storage tank top.

    Thanks
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    edited March 2018
    @Zman @SuperJ
    Is the heat coming from boiler something to be concerned with on this pump? When placed after the boiler?

    I like the basic TRV's from Honeywell.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,024
    TCTOPPS said:

    @Zman @SuperJ

    In this layout i will be placing it after the expansion tank connected to the air bleeder. Just before manifold... After the different arrangements I forgot to put it back in position.

    Why could the pump be just before the boiler but after the expansion tank and storage tanks? Also I understood that it is better for the pumps to push rather than pull in. Since then it would be pulling in from the storage tank top.

    Thanks

    More accurately in hydronics they are called circulators, they don't really push or pull they just cause flow by creating a pressure differential.

    In a drainback solar they do lift first, once the water reaches the top and starts coming down the siphon is established now the pump is a circulator. Ideally a drawback should run on variable speed, especially with high head version t runs full speed to fill, then ramps down to just maintain circulation to match the solar input to the collector.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Zman
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    edited March 2018
    @Zman No, it has very similar specs to other Delta P and T pumps in regard to high temperature. I am accustomed to putting pumps before the heat source. (That is because of the type of pump I am familiar with more successfully uses that arrangement. Positive displacement pumps that use valves and seals do not last nearly as long in high temperatures.)

    The Delta P pump uses a centrifugal pumping action which does not expose any seals or valves because there are none. Its shaft has a seal on it; but it is not under the distress of high pressures (500-1000psi) and temperatures (240 degrees). These circulatory pump shaft seals are probably isolated somehow too???

    I think TRV's are a nice way to manage small systems for the consumer without having to make them a boiler makers nightmare!!!
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    edited March 2018
    @Zman;
    So, Is it 'best practice' if taking off the top of the static tank to use its storage mass by pulling it thru the air bleeder and expansion tank combo before the Delta P pump brings it to boiler?

    Or is anywhere after expansion tank acceptable; since the heat it is pushing is going to be relatively the same.

    Is this why you said the pump could go directly after the boiler. Or is there other reasoning for placing it just after the boiler and expansion tank?

    Thanks!
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,024
    an air purger needs to be at the hottest point, usually right at the boiler
    often the expansion tank and circulator are located there as an assembly

    the exp and pump need not be at that location, important that the circulator(s) are pumping away from wherever you decide to install the tank
    many mid cons prefer you pump into gh, so the tank and circ on the boiler return
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Zman
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    @Rich @SuperJ @GroundUp @Zman @Rich @SuperJ @Jamie Hall @hot rod

    Well, I went ahead and purchased the Viridian VR1816 Delta P, FuelMizer SR501-4 and Honeywell TRV's.

    I hope these parts work out well???
  • SuperJ
    SuperJ Member Posts: 609
    They seem like good parts, a good system is more than the sum of good parts, but you're off to a good start. It's good that you asked questions and figured this out before slapping it all together.

    BTW, based on the curves I think that pump is the right one for the job.
    Zman
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    Thanks, @SuperJ ,

    So does using the higher temp tank coil for assist to boiler make sense. I would hook it up with the lower temp stagnant tank water mass and circ the preheated water there thru the coil then to the boiler. ( The upper coil in stagnant tank would be used for future use)
    .
    The higher temp tank mass would be used for domestic hot water preheat to boiler dhw.

    The delta p pump would be just after the expansion from dhw preheat tank but before the boiler inlet coming from the high temp tank.

    As in drawing.

    Thanks
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    edited November 2018
    @Rich @SuperJ @GroundUp @Zman @Rich @SuperJ @Jamie Hall @hot rod

    Hi! I thought I should use this original thread as it is part of finishing project.

    (After a lengthy summer out door landscaping project, I am attempting to finish this heating project. Tanks are installed and the setup with solar panels with glycol drain back is working very well. Thank you for your help.)

    My question is related to the HTP Combi Boiler Floor Mount that I have installed. It is a self contained appliance. I have assisted domestic hot water from solar. Also I have a solar tank coil feeding the combi inlet for hydronic baseboard system. The baseboard heat fluid circulates with a vr1816 pump.

    I am wanting to use a sr501 switching relay to run the pump for circulation to utilize the energy stored in solar efficiently. Also want to use warm weather shut off. (The boiler itself also has the control settings to regulate heat with the outdoor sensor that came with HTP unit. But this would not solve taking down the heat from tanks if I understand correctly. How does the loop run continuously?)

    Is there away to do this with the boiler normal operation so that the solar stored energy is used efficiently before burner turns on? Is there an setting with boiler that would solve this issue.

    The boiler has a power 120v out to SR501 which would run pump. Can I use the outdoor sensor that came from with the boiler to run boiler and pump. While also using the outdoor sensor that came with the SR501 to just run the pump for the solar stored heat.

    What is the best way to do this? Or perhaps most simple as I am using TRV's for each zone. Am I over engineering this problem?

    So does the SR501 controller just run the pump continuously during the out door reset is operating in range and as the heat requirement is made of the boiler it comes on when loop temperature is not maintained at a certain level. Or can this be controlled by the outdoor sensor that came with the HTP combi.

    These are the questions I am trying to understand.

    Thanks for clearing this idea up.

    Thanks again!
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,024
    got a drawing on how you piped it? I like to use a differential control for solar shuffle. What control do you have on the solar? Some have a second output just for the purpose of moving energy from the tank to the system.

    A differential control watches tank and system temperature. whenever the tank is hotter than the system it loads into it.

    Boiler kicks in when solar falls below a setting you decide.

    Piping is critical, you never want the HTP heating the solar storage, or both firing at once.

    I like the Resol BS Plus for applications like that, here is a look at what it can do.
    https://www.resol.de/Produktdokumente/48005931_DeltaSol_BS_Plus_V2.monen.pdf
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    edited November 2018
    @hot rod_7
    I am using Taco 009 Solar pump. It is self contained with sensors and temperature settings. It measures temp at solar panel head and at inlet to pump after going thru exchangers. Simply unloads into tanks until it is satisfied. I pick up the heat to boiler as needed thru a closed loop coil to HTP combi boiler. Then I am using the controls of the appliance. I already own the SR501 for additional options. I want to circulate the pump to draw down the solar energy before and while the boiler is called to heat.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,024
    here is a SIM, close to what I think you have
    6 AET collectors, facing solar south 45% pitch
    60,000 BTU/ hr load? Do you have an actual load calc on the home
    150F SWT

    Applying all 6 just to the heating load load gets you about a 19% SF

    Ideally you would cover the easy load first the DHW and contribute the remaining to the heating load.

    Driving a 150° collector temperature, which is low for fin tube distribution, really cuts down the efficiency of the collectors. If your heat emitters need higher SWT you will be lowering the efficiency and SF. Hard to get 150 or higher from a cold winter MN sky :)

    Ideally a low temperature radiant, below 120F would increase efficiency, as will a DHW load of 120F
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    edited November 2018
    @hot rod_7
    Yes, that is what type of numbers I have looked at. In this past summer I was hitting much higher numbers. Amazing. Now it is cloudy for this past 10 days. No production. That is why I a questioning how to set up pump with temp reset. To use the boiler with its built in controls or add the SR501and have the circulation pump run non stop. I think that this may be redundant. If the boiler can do this on its own? Trying to figure just how it works. I want to use the stored water as a preheat to the boiler for heating and dhw.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,024
    Been chasing the elusive "perfect" ST system for almost 1/2 a decade now, I've tried many control options.

    As you know you are dealing with a fairly low grade energy, so using it to it's best advantage is the quest. As such the lowest possible heat distribution leverages the energy. Large radiant surfaces are ideal for low SWT operation.

    Massive heat exchange surfaces also. I'd series your upper and lower coils in the tank to double the HX surface from sun- load. I don't see you have any plan for upper coils? More surface area= more energy transfer and higher efficiency exchange. The colder you send water back to the collector the higher their efficiency.

    Always cover the easy load, DHW first. DHW is a pretty much daily load for most. What ever excessive harvest send to heating loads.

    Really a solar controller, under 200 bucks, works with any PSC circulator and really optimizes the energy harvest. 3 way zone valves are simple inexpensive way to shuttle energy. Solar DHW gets covered first, your lower temperature load, take it to 110- 120 to leverage winter ST output. or just pre-heat to the combi 70- 80F, efficiency goes up with lower temperature loads on solar- always.
    Once the DHW is satisfied, send it to heating loads via a second 3 way ZV. If it has energy enough give, the boiler stays off line.

    A solar control with two differential outputs, 4 sensors. You can even vary the speed of the DB pump and pump to the load to exactly match solar to load at any sun condition. If the solar only has 4 gpm to give, why run the pump at a fixed speed 6 gpm? Typically 1 gpm / collector on those AETs.

    Differential controls are much better than setpoint as you watch temperature at two locations to make decisions, you really don't have that option on boilers or relay boxes typically.
    The control on your solar pump is very limited in functions. It may be less $$ to buy an actual solar control and a basis off the shelf pump for the solar, and you end up with the perfect control for both functions you are trying to cover. Connect 4 sensors, two 120V 3 way valves and you are done.

    You will drive yourself crazy trying to make incompatible controls properly drive that system, maybe end up wasting, not harvesting "free" energy.

    The Germans have solar control down to a science, they depend on and leverage every % out of their systems due to $$ Russian oil. So controls from Resol have been uber engineered to do exactly the best job of controlling solar and combi systems.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    edited November 2018
    @hot rod_7
    I have the hot tank as storage for dhw feeding boiler dhw. The coils at top are for the loop for preheat to boiler for baseboard. the lower coils are to flat panels. The second tank is a stagnant 'cooler' tank for temperature storage. I have no location for controller except at utility area where tanks and boiler are located. I am someone that has to have diagrams with plug and play instructions.

    I was considering running the circulator pump continuous for baseboard heat. and then boiler come on when temperature levels drop below a set point.

    Did I understand that you think that there may be other efficiencies as well with another controller?

    I think that I have solar panel transfer figured out. Are you saying that there may be some other efficiencies in gathering the heat?

    Yes, I understand the surface area transfer concept. If both coils were used with panels, where would the DHW come off of the tanks?

    Thanks!
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,024
    edited November 2018
    Really not a lot of heat exchange expected from that top coil. It is in a tank of still water, better to use it for heat input.

    I'd use one tank, both coils in series for DHW, or DHW pre-heat if you want. By far the best first use of your ST, year around.

    The second tank is preheat to inject into heating though I doubt yow will contribute much if your distribution requirement is 130 or above. I have 6 of those exact collectors on my shop, steep winter angle in SW Missouri. 120F is about max I get on cold days, even full sun days. The reason being the cold ambient air around the collector sucks so much energy. You have copper tube with 1'2" insulation and single pane glass, not an ideal way to collect solar.

    Controller can be mounted anywhere, sensors to tanks, up to 300'

    Here are examples of what a BX controller could do. #14 is almost exactly what you want, two tanks instead of two coils.

    Really a load calc and design needs to be done first to see how well ST fits. If you have only high temperature emitters, you may be spending $$$ to gain $ or nothing.
    Go for the low hanging fruit, SDHW. You don't have nearly enough horsepower on the roof to be chasing heating loads, especially any requiring much over 110- 120 SWT.

    In the sunny SW, 300 plus days of sunshine on small low temperature loads, I suggest 10- 12 collectors to even consider the ST journey and expense.

    MSP is around 189 sunny days, below the national average of 205 days per year.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    @hot rod_7
    I have the two bottom coils in series on each tank dedicated to solar loop to panels. 50% Food Grade Glycol. It is a glycol drain back system now since the old system was a closed loop. It drains well into a 20 gallon tank which feeds the solar delta T 009 taco pump. The lower coils run from hot tank to cold tank back to panels.

    I am taking the two top coils in series from each tank and running the hottest emitter fluid thru them as a preheat to the combi boiler that then distributes to three emitter loops that use TRV's back to circulator for preheating again

    The hot tank is the domestic tank preheat to combi boiler DHW. The other tank is static used as storage and potential other use.
    ______
    I restate this as I did not understand your idea of setting up the use of the heat exchangers and tanks. What would you do that is different?

    I am not running 180 degree water thru emitters. I am thinking 120 degree or less (maybe 90 degrees if that is possible) as the circ Delta P pump will be running continuously. These emitters are not being used as main heat but supplemental to three different areas in the lower part of building.

    On the SR501 I have hooked up the sensors as instructed. I have jumpered the T/T and sent wiring from the boiler control to the T/T on the combi-boiler. The power comes from the combi to the SR501 and to zone one which is the VR1816. I have proportional selected at Medium setting.

    I have complete control over the Boiler with its one controls for WWSD, Outside Setback and internal temperature settings. So I set up the Outside sensor and ran leads to the sensor location inside the boiler. So I have two sensors working. One for boiler control and the other for pump control. Both having WWSD. What am I missing? Should the outside setback be in series using only one sensor?

    I am about to finally try firing up the boiler for first time. I have an expansion tank on the static tank and another on the emitter loop just after boiler. I have Taco 4900 air separator, and boiler auto fill valve back flow preventer PRV plumbed and working.

    Oh, the combi-boiler is a HTP Westinghouse Floor Stand with a small water tank 3 gal as I recall with a coil for DHW.

    http://www.westinghousewaterheating.com/literature/WH-Combination-Heat-Hotwater-Floor-Brochure.pdf

    Thanks!

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,024
    Any idea of the brand or model of fin tube? here is a common brand and size output chard. It is rare to see standard 2-
    2-1/2" fin tube rated below 140F SWT. You see how output drops at low SWT. At some point it will cost you more to run the pump then the energy you are getting from the fin tube :)

    My suggestion is to use the solar to it's best potential. That being hot water first, the if you have any additional, run it to the fin tube. As I've mentioned 120F is about what you will see in cold winter months from flat plate solar collectors.

    The drawing a couple posts up shows what i feel is the best bang for your bucks. Separate the two tanks. Pipe their coils in series. One tank is just for DHW, which you probably use most every day? It is an easy load for the collectors, run the tank no more than 120F, it preheats the DHW before it goes to the boiler. Any additional heat goes into the second tank, which could pre-heat the boiler water, maybe.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    edited December 2018
    @hot rod_7
    Hydrotherm emitters. I hate soldering! Map gas. I especially hate soldiering brass and copper fittings.

    I wired Heat Mizer boiler leads to t/t terminal on boiler. Jumpered the T/T on the Mizer and ran out door sensor to Mizer and boiler hot outlet sensor to sensor on Mizer. I set it for out side warm weather shut off to shut down Delta P pump at 10 degrees. Delta P pump runs continuously on very low setting circulating fluid. TVR's on emitter loops.

    It started up. fine. Set temp leaving boiler from 180 factory to 130 to emitters. Comes back at about 95. Low factory setting is 86. Still adjusting temp level. I want it as low a temp coming back as possible before going thru coils in solar tanks. Emitters are putting out nice even heat. So the only setting I have changed is the outlet temperature on the boiler to the emitters.

    Boiler sets factory dhw at tank storage is at 158 and I can adjust outlet from 125 to 140. I have a necessary Taco mixer at outlet of boiler dhw at 125. So I just set boiler tank outlet temp at 125 .

    The boiler has its own outside set back for boiler operations. WWSD is 68 degrees. Reset is 5 degrees factory settings.

    The boiler has two internal pumps. One is a dhw circulator pump. The other is off of the boiler outlet. I have no understanding of what it is for. Unless they want to push the water to the delta P pump??? Would you know? Is this to assure that water is leaving the boiler. It is a Kiturami 3 speed GPD20-6S Z183 series pump.

    The two tanks are separate. I have two coils in each tank. The lower coils are used to heat the tanks from the panels. One being the hot tank the other taking what ever is left from the first coil. They are filled with glycol.

    The other two coils are used for the emitter loops. I could separate them. Currently I run the coolest return from emitters thru the coolest tank and then to the hottest tank and then to inlet on boiler.

    The hottest tank is 80 gal and it is domestic preheat to the boiler dhw inlet. These tanks get very hot. 175 degrees when sitting is easy to obtain in a day of full sun with out use.

    The other tank is static tank for preheat of emitter coil loop and/or future use in another application.

    I do not understand how you can separate the tanks in any other manner. basically I have 6 different supply sources for a loop.

    Possibly I was not clear. I am using glycol in a drain back tank from the solar and feeding the closed loops in the tanks to heat the two 80 gallon tanks.

    So I do not know how else to use the tanks. With those two coils captured by the glycol and the solar panels I only have remaining 2 coils and 2 tanks for dispensing heat to a source.

    So the question would be what is best use of the remaining top two coils (one in each tank) and the tanks them selves. One of which I have currently assigned to DHW the other static.

    Hope that helps.

    Thanks for the feed back. I will look at your drawing again.

    TCTOPPS

    Oh, You are suggest to hook up ALL coils in series and in parallel with each tank , use with glycol in 4 coils to heat both tanks. Then separated tank #1 for dhw and # 2 separate tank for emitter loop. I would be pushing 80 gallon storage in a loop with the emitters? Is this what you are saying? You think that this is more efficient?

    Thanks, How much more efficient?






  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,024
    Clear up the term efficiency first. Looking at collector efficiency, that is what I think you are trying to maximize?

    It is all about operating conditions, temperature that you drive the collectors under.

    Quantity vs quality. Generating 100 gallons of 160° water compared to maybe 600 gallons of 100° water. Pages 11- 13 show you how to determine efficiency of collectors under different fluid temperatures and outdoor air temperatures.

    As luck would have it, the collectors we use in this example are your exact collector 4X8 AET branded.

    So running a hot collector, say 160 on a 20° ambient day with 200 btu/hr./ square foot striking the collector. Collector runs 16% efficient.

    Drive that collector at 95°, same conditions gives you 43% efficiency, about the best you could expect in winter temperatures from that style collector.

    So my point is to first generate your DHW to maybe 120, plot that with the formula and graph and you have 40% collector efficiency.

    My drawing showed all collectors going to tank 1 first, that tank ia DHW with coils piped in series for best use of that 40%.

    Then if there is solar energy left, go to tank 2 and use it as a pre-heat for the heating loop.

    The sim I sent above is for MSP and shows what to expect over the course of a year.

    Since you don't seem to have a use for the upper child, piping them in series in each tank almost doubles your heat exchange and drives the heat exchanger efficiency up also. you are dealing with low grade energy, use and exchange it as efficiently as possible.

    I guess it comes down to expectation and what you are happy with. If the system is doing what you expect measured by??, then you are good to go.


    https://www.caleffi.com/sites/default/files/coll_attach_file/idronics_3_0.pdf
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • TCTOPPS
    TCTOPPS Member Posts: 53
    edited January 2019
    @Rich @SuperJ @GroundUp @Zman @Rich @SuperJ @Jamie Hall @hot rod_7

    Well, just a report now that the system has been working and doing well on solar days.

    How?
    I have the solar closed loop going into a drainback tank and thru the hot domestic 80 gal tank then to second storage tank before exit back to solar panels. ...It works nicely. The coils are in series for longest exchange time available into storage tanks. The coils are in series for solar loop to panels and another series for base board loop to preheat for boiler. The hot tank is the domestic water tank preheat to combi boiler and the 2nd tank is a stagnate tank for heat storage and future use.

    The storage water in hot domestic tank is heated between 130 to 140 ( 3 consecutive days) on warmer winter days (32 degrees days) by the time the sun goes down. The heat is delivered all day long to the baseboard heat. It is cold today ( 10 degrees) and temps in tank are 135 now at the end of the day after several cloudy days.

    The outlet to the combi boiler is 135 for domestic and only slightly less for the loop thru the base board heat panels at the end of sunshine. It stays that way till later tonight when the system will come on to bring heat back up to 140 for the setting I have for the baseboard and/ outside temperature setting.

    140 degrees setting and TVR's work really nicely... My setting are just slightly more than a middle setting. My wife is now actually using and loving the family room again. ....That is the real test!!! Ha!

    Thanks for all the feed back. I appreciate it greatly!