making your own hydronic separator

Snowmelt

quick question, I saw a post where someone commented on and showed a picture of there piping where he made his own hydronic separator. it was made out of if looked like a 2 x 12 inch black nipple with 2 inch crosses on each end. I thought it looked cool and nicely done. I would like to see some more pictures of this. the questions would be is thicker better or longer better? Maybe a little theory with it.

Canucker

That's @Ironman 's baby. It was on a gravity system that he repiped, I believe

ratio

It's based on sizing the larger pipe to slow the water velocity waaaaay down. I'm considering doing something similar at my church, with 12" grooved pipe & mechanical tees drilled into the side. Maybe even some coalescing media in it, with an air vent on top and a dirt leg on the bottom.

hot_rod

Generally speaking you want the barrel 3 times the diameter of the piping connecting. Here is an example of then Caleffi 2". The math changes a bit on the largest sizes, it is not an exact 1:3 ratio always.

Adding a full length media inside give you air and dirt removal function. Stainless expanded metal mesh for example,

In the Sep 4 we add a magnet or multiple magnets in brass dry wells.

Ironman

Here's the one I posted recently:



Like hot rod said, you want it to be about 3 X the diameter of the piping. This one is 3" black iron with 1.25" piping.

I probably wouldn't make my own if the piping is 1" or less since it's not cost effective. I'd use the Caleffi Sep4.

The main idea is to make it large enough to drastically slow down the velocity of the flow so that air bubbles easily rise to the top and dirt particals fall to the bottom.

Here's another one with two boilers connected:

Snowmelt

Thanks hot rod, I use calleffi more then a few times, your rep here in NJ is john selerno. I have him in my phone, nice guy he came over my home and job sites a few times.

Snowmelt

Iron man that is a great one . I almost made that my screen saver. I am jealous and want to make one myself. let me ask can you add a mesh screen to help the air bubbles or put a magnet on bottom to collect the metal?

Ironman

Snowmelt said:

Iron man that is a great one . I almost made that my screen saver. I am jealous and want to make one myself. let me ask can you add a mesh screen to help the air bubbles or put a magnet on bottom to collect the metal?

Sure, just make sure the mesh is non-ferrous material (stainless, plastic, brass).

hot_rod

Ironman said:

Snowmelt said:

Iron man that is a great one . I almost made that my screen saver. I am jealous and want to make one myself. let me ask can you add a mesh screen to help the air bubbles or put a magnet on bottom to collect the metal?

Sure, just make sure the mesh is not ferrous material (stainless, plastic, brass).

And the mesh material needs to be rated for the temperature, not many plastics handle 180- 190F. We use a glass/ composite material.

If you weld on the vessel you need to use a metal, stainless media inside.

Here is another homemade, corner version.

warno

Does it require a screen for "dirt" separation or will the particals still fall out of the flow?

Ironman

It will work without it if it slows the velocity down enough, but it's more effective with it.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Love the one that @Ironman made also @ratio I think vic is a great idea for those that have access to grooving equipment.

Cap at the top and bottom for easy internal access.

@ratio I don't know why Victaulic doesn't make there blank caps with a 1/2" or 3/4" tapped hole in the cap so they could be used for drains and vents. I know their strainers come with them but I tried buying them as a separate part and they are not offered.

I have drilled and tapped some caps a couple of times but it's a pain

hot_rod

warno said:

Does it require a screen for "dirt" separation or will the particals still fall out of the flow?

If you look at the design of the media in the Caleffi Discal of example, the shape of the composite we use is designed to do two things. The multi faceted shape presents many "edges' to collect micro bubbles. The shape and arrangement of the multiple fins also creates some swirling action to help dirt and air removal, similar to a centrifugal type separator function.

So a large low velocity chamber, notice Caleffi has a much larger diameter body compared to other brass types Media with lots of edges, not just a brittle brush or window screen design, and shaped to create some swirl.

These are the keys to top performing air and dirt separators.

kcopp

I had Lee @ Earthlee make some of these up for me. She does nice work. Can customize pretty much anything.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@kcopp , I suspect that's a pc of "spiro heat" fin tube poking out??

Gordy

With black iron pipe, or any material, you could add your own rare earth magnets to capture the iron oxide particulates. However iron pipe makes mounting the magnets a snap.

ratio

@EBEBRATT-Ed, IDK about Vic, but Anvil has a Gruvlok cap that they claim is available with a ½, ¾, or 1" tapping, 7074T. The way it's noted in the pdf suggests it isn't too common a part though.

hot_rod

> @Gordy said:
> With black iron pipe, or any material, you could add your own rare earth magnets to capture the iron oxide particulates. However iron pipe makes mounting the magnets a snap.

But a magnet on a steel vessel turns the steel into a magnet making it harder to flush the particular out. so the magnets are in brass wells

Gordy

Quicker capture. Remove the magnets, and most will flush out. Question is, so long as the iron oxide is captured, and contained in the hydraulic seperator does it need flushed out. Most times it's not huge amounts depending on the system piping,boiler, and emitters.

Gordy

In the example of iron mans black pipe sep, if the magnets are placed in the bottom cap then most of the oxide will be captured at the magnet location. Unscrew the cap and clean.

Gordy

If you want to add a mesh media in the Sep for micro bubble capture, use brass, or bronze as to not clog the mesh with iron oxide.

Really oxides only prey is an ECM circulator. So as long as the oxides reside in another part of the system the sep, and doesn't cause flow issues alls good no?

hot_rod

Gordy said:

If you want to add a mesh media in the Sep for micro bubble capture, use brass, or bronze as to not clog the mesh with iron oxide.

Really oxides only prey is an ECM circulator. So as long as the oxides reside in another part of the system the sep, and doesn't cause flow issues alls good no?

Kind of.
The tiny size of magnetite allows it to settle in any low flow area. Talk to Richard "heatmeister" he has stories of basement radiant loops that completely clog shut from magnetite settling into the low, and low flow velocity areas. It becomes like a "black concrete" in the piping system. Those plugged loops need to be abandoned and new heat emitters retrofitted. A mag sep installed early enough could prevent that.

Usually these are the old non barrier radiant jobs that are constantly creating the hematite and magnetite.

But the urgency to rid systems of magnetite came about with the installation of ECM circulators.

Here is part of a recent Mechanical Business article penned by Neil Watson of Adey, nicely explained in plain English Heat transfer penalties are also to be considered.

I suspect that high incident of magnetite problems in the UK has something to do with their obsession with open system, which they are still installing! Mag separation has it's roots in the UK, same with inhibitor chemicals.

Over here we produce it with non barrier radiant tube.

kcopp

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

@kcopp , I suspect that's a pc of "spiro heat" fin tube poking out??

Yes.
Its a replacement for a Spirovent.

HomeOwnerJack

My homemade hydronic seperator for my "one pipe" system.

HomeOwnerJack

hot_rod

should work, tees are a bit wide but you have a big diameter bore,  it is more of primary secondary arrangement 

The dreaded swing check after the pump🥴

Make sure that model can be mounted horizontal, some can some can’t.

Id like to see more of and air separator if that float vent is the only air removal?

HomeOwnerJack

There is one of those 1"cast iron air separators about 4 ' to the right not shown.
Check valve(s) I installed because I kept  my fuel oil boiler and they let me heat with either unit depending on which nest thermostat I activate. The air seperator is common to both.
I will be replacing the check valves with zone valves to better minimize eddie currents and their heat loss.

HomeOwnerJack

The t's being wide? Is that wide being the distance between them? I was following a recommendation that they be separated by at least 3*diameter of the 2" pipe that makes up my chamber. And primary/secondary separation was my goal with this GV90+ boiler.
Thank you for feed back.