Blame the customer first

Jackmartin

I drove my youngist son out to the U of M today and as all our youngsters have attended the U of M I have been there literally hundreds of times. This time —— because I read Dan,s book aka Jake the Ripper I remembered a long ago job we quoted. The old student residence was 30 years ago ;old. The building had steam unit ventilators and as with so many old large instutional bldg. it had Pneumatic controls. I am competent at pneumatics ; but I have always much preferred electric and of course now, electronic. However, I digress ,the first meeting was held with all the contractors so we could receive the scope of work. This was obviously written by an engineer ;at close to twenty five pages he or she had to much time on their hands. Soooo, we were to go off and read this crap and come back for the on site meeting in the residence. Now, here I have to be honest ,I did not like the chief of the Mechanical Department at all and since he is supposedly now in heaven, I still do not like the entitled jerk. He was a shift engineer that attended the faculty of engineering for no fees, at that time staff and children of employees had their fees waived. In addition to not paying over the eight years he attended classes ,he was paid to do so by the university ,as other people covered for him if he was on the day shift. I do not know how much experience you have with shift engineers in large public institutions ;but they are pretty much glued to a chair watching television. I was the HVAC foreman for period at one of our largest hospitals and I know what they do for a living. Let that be as it may :we attended the site and the residence required 75 new steam coils because the kids were so hot ,out of self defence, they had opened the windows on a- 20 night and steam coils do tend to freeze at that temperature. So our hero, was busy using epitaphs fit for a low class bar, in reference to how dumb these youngsters were. I happen to really like young people and I lost my temper.When I was young that happened a lot ,or so my wife says — she is always right. I told him that it was his responsibility to have the controls working correctly so the rooms were comfortable and once that happened they would not need to#$& kick the windows open, ****. So ,he proceeds to spout off about his qualifications, which is nice, I have one son that is a professional engineer it does not impress me. Now, I knew I had a snowballs chance in Hades of getting this job ,so I had nothing to loose. The next statement he made, I went apoplectic, he informs me he is from a Germany and all the best engineers are from there. I have worked with just about every colour,creed ,religion and I do not care . As long as you are a decent person ,that’s all I need to know. Unfortunately, I knew about his sweetheart deal at the University and told him so in my best tradesmen vernacular. Strange, we were never invited to quote again? The point is ,the customer deserves from each and everyone of us ,a job that is bulletproof. When we do our job correctly , the customer never knows or cares what we did ,because everything works correctly and consistently. One of my old journeymen told me too many years ago to remember :A really good tradesman never hears a word about his work because the customer is satisfied. Strange how memories come to the surface ,ah well, be safe and all the best, Jack.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Amazing but it happens everywhere and will get worse in the future. Serious lack of qualified technicians. Engineers?? Haven't found a good one in a long time. They may be "book smart" but that's it. It should be required of every engineer to work with the tools to get an engineering degree. Even as little as 6 months to a year would make a big difference.

Unit ventilators are tough. The lack of quality dampers allows air leakage which at -20 make them tough to control. Also a small mixing chamber for RA & OA

Leon82

Those types need a reality check once and a while.

Jamie Hall

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

Amazing but it happens everywhere and will get worse in the future. Serious lack of qualified technicians. Engineers?? Haven't found a good one in a long time. They may be "book smart" but that's it. It should be required of every engineer to work with the tools to get an engineering degree. Even as little as 6 months to a year would make a big difference.

Unit ventilators are tough. The lack of quality dampers allows air leakage which at -20 make them tough to control. Also a small mixing chamber for RA & OA

I quite agree with you. As it happens, I am (as I think you know) a professional engineer -- and rather proud of that. As it also happens, I got my license the hard way: 12 years of increasingly responsible work experience, starting on the operating controls of a Mark I spade. Then the usual exams and inquisitions. But I still hold that to become a PE one should be required to have actual field experience in responsible charge. Furthermore, I think that to maintain one's license one should have to have some field experience every few years. Just sitting in an office chair somewhere does not an engineer make, nor having a degree or two -- never mind the comic operas which are foisted off as "continuing education credits".

My views are remarkably unpopular in the profession...

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Jamie Hall

Most engineers I have met seem to have a snooty attitude about.......everything and seem to look down on plumbers/pipefitters/service technicians........until the heat goes down in their own home or business.

It's plain to me that you are too involved in the day to day operations of keeping things running to be that way. Very refreshing!!

I teach a few hrs at the union hall. What bothers me is when we get some young guns with some brains, they want to "google' the answers on their phone...get instant results and many of them become parts changers.

I have had a few discussions about how cell phones have ruined service technicians.

In the old day when we had a problem we dug in and fixed it...or tried to. The good ones exhausted as many possibilities as possible before calling for help.

Now, as soon as they hit the job their calling "tech support" or there buddies or other technicians for help.

I don't have a problem with this if they have already "dug in" and at least tried to fix it first....but most wont

how I got on this subject I don't know

KC_Jones

There was a time in this country that with enough practical experience one could sit for the PE test, but I don't think that is the case anymore.

@Jamie Hall do you know if one can still accomplish this? Honestly the hurdle would be finding a company that allows for the practical experience without the engineering degree.

I work in design and drafting, but after so many years you start doing some of the engineering. Can't be around it (with ambition) and not start blurring that line after a while. Also the basic practical experience starts telling you what you can and can't do, no matter what the theoretical engineering says.

One can engineer anything, but it still needs to be built. Sometimes those 2 things fight with one another.

Gordy

I knew a guy who had a PE in six different states. Custom home builder. He got his 6 th one here in Illinois because the building inspector wouldn't allow a 6" thick crawl space foundation wall even though his calculations proved it to be structurally sound. The inspector used the crutch he didn't have his PE in Illinois so he wouldn't except his calculations. Okay took the test. Here you go.

I know some that have struggled multiple times to get their PE. It's not an easy test by no means.

BobC

@KC_Jones I worked as a electrical engineer and then a manager for years with nothing but a high school degree and a willingness to learn behind me. I read all the trade journals there were back then. The boss didn't give a damn what credentials you had, he cared about your ability to do a job.

Some of the degree'd men that worked for me were put out by my lack of a degree but most were happy to work for someone who understood the work and could suggest a path when they were stuck on something.

That career path is gone now, if you don't have the credentials your toast, real knowledge counts for very little in this world.

Bob

NY_Rob

BobC said:

... That career path is gone now, if you don't have the credentials your toast, real knowledge counts for very little in this world.

Bob

A sad commentary, but true nowadays.

I read a comment the other day "why do you think all the Android apps suck (clumsy user interface, menu icons that literally have no relationship to their function, redundant screens, frequent crashes, etc..)... because they have kids writing them with no practical programming experience".

Gordy

Yup working your way up from the bottom took the back seat to a degree, and a prospective employee to take a job for peanuts to start paying on their student loans.........

Leon82

> @NY_Rob said:
> ... That career path is gone now, if you don't have the credentials your toast, real knowledge counts for very little in this world.
>
> Bob
>
> A sad commentary, but true nowadays.
>
> I read a comment the other day "why do you think all the Android apps suck (clumsy user interface, menu icons that literally have no relationship to their function, redundant screens, frequent crashes, etc..)... because they have kids writing them with no practical programming experience".

What apps do you use like that

NY_Rob

The Zello Walkie Talkie app is a complete mess as far as the GUI... no body knows what any of the wacky icons actually mean. The Robertshaw remote heating app has two redundant menu layers to navigate through (with no way to condense them into one layer) if you want to add a second t-stat to your list. The Radio.com app removed "recently listened to" stations after a recent update- requiring 6 button presses vs. 1 button press before the "update" to change radio stations (while driving). Android Auto still needs a lot of work, but at least you can now run Waze through AA.

Lots of terrible apps out there.....