1900's era steam system is running out of water daily

KildarePete

Hi there,

Trying to get my head around my steam heat problem and hoping someone can help diagnose the issue.

Background:
I live in a 3-story house in Boston that was build around 1880. The heating system is from that era. One zone, steam system with heavy cast-iron radiators on each floor. Smith boiler ("8 Series - s/w - 6"). Oil-fired. The radiators each have an inlet pipe and return pipe. The house has the insulation characteristics of a big drafty barn.

The system has held up pretty good except I woke up yesterday morning AND this morning to find that the boiler has run out of water. To run out of water two days in a row (after refilling it) set off alarms bells for me. So I suspected a leak somewhere. Sure enough, on the second floor, I found one radiator leaking at the union between the inlet pipe and the radiator. I stuck a pan underneath it to collect the water. The amount of water collected in pan (over two hours) was not too much so I was surprised by that relative small leak.
I tried to shut off the valves at both sides of the leaky radiator but the shutoff valves must be leaky also as the radiator is still getting heat. I guess if this radiator is the only leak I could just wait for spring and diligently empty the pan each morning.

To investigate this relatively minor leak causing the whole boiler to go dry each night, I went outside and looked at my chimney as the boiler was going. I noticed a lot of steam/smoke coming out. Does that explain why the water is disappearing?

Any ideas/comments?

BobC

There is something else going on and what you see coming out of that chimney is not a good sign.

Do you have any boiler returns that go under the cellar floor? Look around and make sure you don't have any other leaks in the system. How old is the boiler?

You may have a hole in the boiler casting above the waterline that is leaking into the firebox. That could mean it's time for a new boiler, call your service man and ask him to come and look to see if it really is a failed boiler section.

Most service people are very busy now so it could take him a while to get to you and this blizzard is going to make it worse. It's going to be bone chilling for the 3 days after this storm so I would just check the water level several times a day and add water as necessary.

Bob

KC_Jones

If you have a lot of steam coming out of the chimney you most likely have a hole in the boiler and will need to replace it.

Depending on how bad the leak is you may be able to limp along for a little while until you can get a good contractor in to do a replacement.

I would suggest you get a competent steam contractor in to give you an evaluation of your situation and what the options are.

Where are you located? We may know someone good in your area.

EDIT: Just noticed Boston area.

@Charlie from wmass may be able to help you out, be patient most of the good guys are busy at this time of year.

nicholas bonham-carter

While you are waiting for the pro to come, make a list of your radiators, and calculate the total EDR of the system, so any new boiler can be correctly sized. Search EDR here.
Are there traps on these rads, or could it be a 2-pipe air vent system?
These systems will need very low pressures, and a very correctly sized boiler, so a low pressure gauge, (reading ounces), and a vaporstat is a must.—NBC

KildarePete

Thanks for those comments! Really appreciate it

I think the leak-in-the-boiler theory is the most likely now.

Earlier I had checked the basement and house for water leaks and apart from the previously mentioned small radiator leak on the second floor, there is nothing else to explain such a rapid loss of water.

The bad news is that the leak must be a bad one.

About 90 minutes ago (10:30 AM) I noticed that the LWCO light was on again and the boiler out of water (after I manually refilled it to to the recommended mark at 5:30 AM this morning). The Smith boiler is only about 10 years old.

How long should I wait for the boiler to cool down before refilling it (with cold water)?? Or is that being over-cautious?

Can I just very slowly (and constantly) trickle cold water into the boiler so I can limp along and keep the heat going?

With the snow storm hitting us, the very earliest I can get somebody to look at this is Friday and that's probably optimistic.

Thanks again.

BobC

The water quality in Boston is pretty good, I'm surprised the boiler is leaking after only 10 years, especially since my Smith G8-3 is only 5 years old.

Did you confirm you have no pipes going under the cellar floor?

You can very slowly feed water in to a hot boiler, the key is to do it slowly so you don't shock the cast iron. If you decide to let water to feed in constantly at a very slow rate I would check on it every 1/2 hour or so to make sure you have the rate set correctly, you don't want the boiler to flood.

Bob

KildarePete

nicholas bonham-carter said:

While you are waiting for the pro to come, make a list of your radiators, and calculate the total EDR of the system, so any new boiler can be correctly sized. Search EDR here.
Are there traps on these rads, or could it be a 2-pipe air vent system?
These systems will need very low pressures, and a very correctly sized boiler, so a low pressure gauge, (reading ounces), and a vaporstat is a must.—NBC

When I bought this house about 20 years ago, I also bought Dan Hoolihan's 'Lost Art of Steam Heating' and tried to figure if my system was a one-pipe or two-pipe system. As far as I can tell it's sort of hybrid.
There are no traps on the radiators. Each radiator has two pipes (inlet pipe and return pipe). There is one (sometimes two) Vent-Rite #1 adjustable radiator vents on each radiator. The piping from the boiler in the basement goes to each radiator in a largely home-run fashion. The Pressuretrol is set to between 0.5 and 2 PSI.
I think the fundamentals of my steam heating system are sound. It was obviously designed a longtime ago but provided as I don't do anything stupid to undo what the Dead Men intended, it should continue to do fine.
If I need a replacement boiler, then I think a similarly sized one should be fine since I had no issues with this one (until now).

MilanD

Hate to say it, but you may have to babysit it with the storm coming and all, and keep adding water. Constant trickle may work, but it may overfill the boiler when the system is off... No easy solution, I'm afraid.

Do check for any buried pipes... I can't perceive a hole that large that would evaporate half of the boiler in 4 hours.

KildarePete

BobC said:

The water quality in Boston is pretty good, I'm surprised the boiler is leaking after only 10 years, especially since my Smith G8-3 is only 5 years old.

Did you confirm you have no pipes going under the cellar floor?

You can very slowly feed water in to a hot boiler, the key is to do it slowly so you don't shock the cast iron. If you decide to let water to feed in constantly at a very slow rate I would check on it every 1/2 hour or so to make sure you have the rate set correctly, you don't want the boiler to flood.

Bob

Yes - the rapid loss of water is surprising. But when I look at my chimney from the street, I can see a steady steam plume coming out which wasn't there in previous winters.

Yet when the boiler is not running, I stuck my hand in the draft vent that leads to the chimney liner and DID NOT feel any moisture in there. So I'm not sure.

There's no pipes under basement floor. I've mapped out where the near boiler piping goes to and accounted for all returning lines. Everything starts (and finishes) at 'head' height.
I think I will do a very slow trickle feed of water and treat it like a baby until I can get someone in to take a look.

Thanks again for the helpful suggestions and advice. Really appreciate it.

Jamie Hall

That steady plume from the chimney is a pretty sure sign that there is a leak -- probably pretty good sized -- in the boiler above the water line. You wouldn't feel any moisture in there -- it's all steam carried up the chimney.

Good luck...

mikeg2015

You might lower the maximum steam pressure.

Lower pressure equals smaller leaks. I have a few leaking valve steams that go away if it keep things balanced and don’t use setbacks, then it never builds any pressure.