Weil McLain GV90+ Gas Boiler 140K BTU's- 3 years young - Temp is dropping on all 3 zones - Need Help

ChristinaLynn

Sure enough - when the system begins to work again the outside gauge and the inside temps are in sync. I just went to check - the outside gauge has gone up from 135 to 190 now. Thank you for your help - appreciate your knowledge and expertise - wish one of you were in this area.

Gordy

From your description some things come to mind so you understand the components.

The silver tank.
That is the expansion tank. It takes the expansion of the system water content when heated. Water changes density as it is warmed. The tank should have a charge of 12-15psi while isolated from the system .

The plumber should not have let air out. If he did he should have checked to make sure it had the proper charge while isolated from the system.

ChristinaLynn

Thank you - I had a feeling he shouldn't have done that - he appeared that he didn't know how to approach the situation - maybe its best he never called or came back. I'm definitely finding someone else (hopefully) that understands this boiler and its components. I asked if he had any instruments - like the infrared thermometer so I could show him that the baseboards were definitely luke warm. On the side panel - what I am understanding is the net output means 113 degrees at the baseboards?

Gordy

The spirovent releases air trapped in the system. Air in the system can collect in areas impeding, or stopping flow.

ChristinaLynn

I'm happy to see my curtains moving which means the heat is radiating - the simple things in life that makes one happy on this New Year's Day!!

ChristinaLynn

There was no cap on it - maybe it needs to be replaced - I think that may have been here since the original boiler from close to 40 years ago.

Ironman

ChristinaLynn said:

The reason I ask is that when he first came out weeks ago he was sitting at the side of the boiler saying that he found that the silver tank can release air and since only a little came out when he turned the screw he felt it probably doesn't have air in the system? That was the last I spoke with him - he was going to read the manual and call Weil McLain. Each time this happens when I finally hear water running again it almost sounds like a pop sound downstairs and a gushing of water rushing through the system as if something was stuck and cleared and then it works for a week or more and happens again. I learned that when one zone's temp starts to drop at the thermostat eventually the other two are affected.

"The silver tank can release air". Are you referring to the grey (silver) expansion tank that has a bicycle valve on the bottom of it?

If the plumber let the air out of it that may be your problem. Let me explain: when the water is heated it must have a place to expand into. The expansion tank is that place. The tank has an internal rubber diaphragm that separates two chambers in it. One chamber receives water and the other is per-charged with air. The air side is pre-charged to 12 psi which means if the water side exceeds that pressure when it's heated, the tank will accept that amount of water. The air is a cushion that allows that expansion. If there's not a proper air cushion, then the water has no place to expand since it will push the diaphragm all the way against the bottom of the tank. If there's no place for expansion when the water is heated, the pressure will immediately rise to 30 psi and the relief valve will open. Now your system is low on water. If your fill valve is not functioning, or if the line is closed, the system will have little or no pressure when it cools. Without a minimum cold pressure of 12 psi or more, water is not lifted up into your piping and radiators.

The tank MUST have at least 12 psi air pressure with NO system water pressure on it to function properly.

Your problem is not with your boiler or its sophistication. It is a simple system problem that would be the same with any type of boiler. Whatever tech you get, he only needs to know basic hydronics to correct it.

The things to check:
1. Does the fill valve maintain at least 12 psi when the system is cold. More pressure may be needed if your house exceeds 2 stories.
2. The air pressure in the expansion tank must match the pressure setting of the fill valve with NO system water pressure on the tank. This will be at least 12 psi.
3. He should know how to purge air from each individual loop. There should be a valve and a boiler drain on each loop to do this. There may also be coin vents on the radiators.
4. As mentioned, the circulators are installed incorrectly and may be damaged. Each circulator should have its own flow check.

Again, all of this is basic hydronics and has nothing to do with the type of boiler that you have.

ChristinaLynn

the circulating pumps and I believe the zone panel was replaced in 2010. The boiler 3 years ago. All that piping had to be reconfigured because according to today's code 140K btu boiler venting through my chimney along with the water heater was not within code so the water heater became orphaned. Then there was the issue of possible carbon monoxide backup due to the incorrect lining of my chimney - so my water heater had to be replaced after the boiler had been installed? I would have preferred the boiler with the water heater inside, but this configuration was decided was best.

Gordy

^ that's what scares me about the plumber. Burps the x tank which he may have checked it to see if it was water logged, but it didn't sound like it. He takes the manual, admits he doesn't know anything about that boiler. Hasn't come back.

With the problems at hand there was plenty to investigate with out getting into the boiler.

ChristinaLynn

Thank you for letting me know that - I definitely need this checked or as we can all see - its going to continue to happen. It's tough when the system is working and the person is looking at you like - what are you talking about? So now I have a record and pictures with my zones functioning and then not functioning and outdoor temps etc. - so they need to troubleshoot it whether it appears ok at that moment in time or not. Thank you

ChristinaLynn

I agree - I need to find someone I can trust definitely. Scary. During these last several weeks of this happening, - my oven also only 3 year young and only use it on holidays etc. - good thing I was right next to it in another room - I realized I kept hearing clicking and heard gushing sound and realized the gas was coming out but not lighting - long story short. PSEG came out - red tagged it. I decided I could cook in my toaster oven until I find out what is happening with the heating system and how much this is going to cost. Can live without an oven - but can't live without a heating system!!

ChristinaLynn

One zone is on 70 and the other two - up to 68!! with temp outside at 13 degrees - Alleluia!! Going to place a couple of calls and hopefully someone can come tomorrow and begin to figure this out. Thank you everyone - I greatly appreciate all your help!!!! have a great holiday!!

Gordy

Try the find a contractor on the main page here?

Gordy

Please also let us know where the issues were. We like to know if we were helpful. Hard diagnosing issues through fiber optics.

ChristinaLynn

Thank you - will do.

Paul48

Get a good technician.........That boiler is a horse of a different color. It incorporates 2 circulators within it......a system circulator and a bypass circulator. The bypass feeds some hot water from the feed to the return, when the return temp gets below 140*. The whoosh you are hearing may be velocity and not air. There may be a problem with the bypass. Until you can get a good boiler person in, you might try rotating your zones. Turn one on at a time. When zoning that boiler with circulators, it must be piped primary/ secondary, and appears to be.

NY_Rob

The op mentioned the boiler was installed 3yrs ago.

Maybe reach out to the installing co for service as they wouldn't sell you something they don't understand or don't service. There's a good chance they've installed more than one of these GV90's.