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Ignition problem with UB95M-200 Boiler

I have a problem with my UB95M-200 boiler, and it sounds very much like a past dialogue I found on your site https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/144579/utica-boiler-ignition-problem My brother has the identical unit at his home, and I have swapped the spark plug, spark plug wire, and the control module — one at a time — and I still get a 02 error on my unit, and my brother’s unit runs fine. Also, the rumbling sound that was mentioned in the previous post (link above) has been happening in my unit for the past ten years. The installer technician could never figure out why it was happening, and finally gave up trying about seven years ago. Despite the crazy sounds upon ignition, it has kept my house warm for the past decade. Now, after resetting it will not ignite. Twice in the past week it ignited and warmed up as normal, only to fail in a subsequent cycle and stop with the 02 error showing after five attempts at igniting. Help!
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Comments

  • Tim McElwainTim McElwain Posts: 4,020Member
    It is typically a combustion issue (air/gas mix). Do you have a combustion analyzer? If so you need to do a combustion test. When was the last time this unit was serviced as it may need cleaned.

    Monday try calling Todd at ECR 315-731-4163.
  • danzcookiemandanzcookieman Posts: 6Member
    Cleaned it last week. That didn't change anything.
    I was wondering about the previous post that I referenced. Is there a good chance that it has something to do with the routing of the exhaust? -- especially considering that crazy rumbling.
    Thanks, will call Todd tomorrow.
  • danzcookiemandanzcookieman Posts: 6Member
    ... and No, I don't have a combustion analyzer.
    I have a screwdriver, a hammer ... and an iPhone ;)
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 4,165Member
    You need to call Todd at ECR. Have your model and serial number ready.

    You may have the original burner which had issues and needs to be retrofitted.

    That boiler MUST be setup properly with a digital combustion analyzer and a tech that's properly trained to do so. A hammer and screw driver ain't gonna cut it.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • danzcookiemandanzcookieman Posts: 6Member
    Thanks Ironman. I was joking about the tools, but I really don’t have a combustion analyzer. The tech won’t be back until tomorrow, and I’m trying to learn what I can until he returns, and I was hoping for suggestions that might help me figure it out. I did all of the swapping of parts with my brother’s boiler, and at least I’ve confirmed that it’s not the control module, spark plug or wire. Wondering if there were any other obvious parts that I might try swapping, but I’ll wait for the tech and, hopefully, his combustion analyzer. Thanks to both of you for getting back to me so quickly — and on Sunday!
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 4,165Member
    edited December 2017
    I have well over 100 hours dealing with rumbling, fog-horning and delayed ignition on the first generation of burners in that model. The only way to cure the problem is with the updated burner kit which includes a reprogrammed ignition control.

    If yours is 10 years old, it's almost a certainty that you need the retrofit.

    If your original tech had contacted the factory, he wouldn't have wasted seven years trying to figure it out.

    Call Todd before the tech wastes his time and your money trying to correct it.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • danzcookiemandanzcookieman Posts: 6Member
    It’s now running well, thank you!
    After calling the original installer (the same man who was trying to help me diagnose the current problem) yesterday morning, and asking him if he had a digital combustion analyzer — and getting the answer “I don’t even know what that is” ... I decided it was time to call someone else. Actually, I now realize that it was approximately one decade past the time to call someone else. The service man, Tim, has the same unit in his home and has been trained to work on Utica and Dunkirk boilers. Also, he has a digital combustion analyzer. He installed a new gas valve. He reprogrammed the parameters and fan speeds on the control module, and said that they were way out of whack — saying that they were probably never set correctly in the first place . I’m not certain that the gas valve needed to be replaced, but the boiler is running better than ever without the rumbling sounds. Tim said that he does not think I need an updated burner kit now that he has reprogrammed my existing one. Does that sound right to you?
    Also, I did want to mention that I called Todd’s number at ECR several times and left a couple messages with my phone number, asking for a return call. I still have not heard back from him.
    One final note (I think), Tim said that I should be using a special anti-freeze in the system. It has been filled with water since day one — ten years ago. Tim and Ironman, what is your take on this?
    Thanks again for all the help! You guys, and this forum, are awesome!
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 4,165Member
    edited December 2017
    Is the system subject to freezing? If not, then you don't need antifreeze. If yes, then there is a special type required.

    Wait til you talk to Todd and see what he says about the burner. My experience has been they want to replace everyone that I had trouble with, which was many. I tried everything imaginable that ECR's engineers could recommend to correct the burner problem, plus some of my own; nothing worked, including multiple parameter and fan speed changes. Just when I found something that I thought had fixed it, boom...it was back again. It might have worked well for 30 cycles or more, but on the next one, it was back.

    I'm glad you found a good tech, but I doubt if anyone in the field has had more experience with that issue than I have and the burner kit upgrade was the only solution.

    I was one of the first ones to install that boiler and had to work with engineering to get an updated burner kit out. I believe that there have been 3 revisions of it since then. The new burner requires a factory reprogrammed ignition module since it uses different parameters that can't be done in the field.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • danzcookiemandanzcookieman Posts: 6Member
    Thanks, I will update my service man on all that info. It’s really great that you are willing to take the time to share your knowledge and experience with others!
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    edited March 10
    Hello all, I am having same issue with E-02 . It was installed April 2007 and has been getting that code through most of its life. Sometimes it will shut off a bunch of times and then other times it may not do it for a few months. My installer past away and I also can't find anyone familiar with the boiler ub95-200. Help please...
    I'm located in Melrose MA
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 4,165Member
    Try the contractor locator above.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    You live local to me?
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 4,165Member
    No, I'm in VA.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    Do you have any suggestions what I should do?
  • lchmblchmb Posts: 2,756Member
    contact ECR and see if they have anyone in the area who can help you..
  • kcoppkcopp Posts: 3,045Member
    Bob Gagnon does a lot w/ Utica....
    http://www.bobgagnon.com/
  • newagedawnnewagedawn Posts: 487Member
    could be the gas valve, those fail
    "The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    I have called ECR in the past, they didn't know of anyone in my area. I also have called Bob Gagnon over the years but he is always too busy or on vacation lol. Idk I have learned to live with it but it sucks because most of the time it shuts off in the middle of the night. Thanks for the tips though.
  • kcoppkcopp Posts: 3,045Member
    So I guess the next thing to ask how long do you "live" with it? When do you say enough is enough and pull it out for something more reliable?
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    Not till it stops running. I didn't mention that about a year and a half ago I got a pinhole leak In the heat exchanger, I think that's what it's called. Thankfully it was covered under warranty but not the labor. I couldn't find anyone to do the work and thats when I found Bob Gagnon from searching online. He recommended another guy to me because he wasn't around. They had to take the whole unit out and all apart and install back again. They didn't seem to happy doing the job but they did it. It cost alot to have it done. I asked if they could go through the parameters to see if it was set up right from the original install but they didn't want to. They said it's easy that I could figure it out. I am clueless with that stuff so didn't touch it. I was just happy I had heat again. So I have so much money into this thing I don't want to buy another boiler.
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 4,165Member
    Who installed it?
    It needs the burner retrofit that I mentioned above. It's not that hard to do, but like any mod/con, it should be setup with a digital combustion analyzer.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    A local guy installed it and passed away not long after. Do I get the new burner retrofit from ecr or a parts warehouse?
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 4,165Member
    A licensed contractor can get it from them, but you need to find someone with a digital combustion analyzer that knows how to setup a mod/con.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    Hello all, I have finally found someone that is familiar with my boiler and lives right around the corner from me. The first thing I asked him if he had a digital combustion analyzer thingy and he said yes! I told him about the retrofit burner upgrade but he wanted to just clean it out and flush the tank and see what the combustion analyzer read and see what happens before spending the money for the new upgraded board. Well he cleaned it and flushed it then when he turned it on it wouldn't fire up and was showing another code, I forgot the code it was showing maybe E 07 I'm not sure. He checked and tested everything and said it was saying the board was no good now. He is going to get a new board Monday. I asked him about the upgraded one and he said they will give him the newest one available. Does that sound right to you Ironman?? Or any one else listening?
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 4,165Member
    edited May 15
    No, it doesn't sound right.
    PLEASE HEAR ME: THE ORIGINAL BURNER DESIGN HAD ISSUES AND REQUIRED A RE-DESIGN. YOU NEED THE ENTIRE KIT WHICH INCLUDES THE BURNER , THE CONTROL MODULE AND OTHER NECESSARRY PARTS.

    In all kindness, there's really no need for me to comment further if you're not gonna follow my advice and get the retrofit burner kit. It was originally called the "Worgas" kit.

    Your guy is guessing.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    I thought it was only the board, didn't realize it was other parts too. I told the guy that's working on it all that stuff you said ironman and he called the manufacturer and they told him yes I need the retrofit kit. Hopefully it will come today.
    Thanks
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    Well I had the new retrofit kit installed a few weeks ago and I still have the E02. My installer was on the phone with tech support for a long time and no one could figure out why. No body wants to deal with it anymore after spending all this time on it.
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 4,165Member
    What are your combustion numbers and gas pressure at high and low fire?
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    I will try and find out. He may come tomorrow to try again. I only know what I hear them saying and just remember it was right on what the tech was saying. The tech also said it could be bad readings from the combustion analyzer so he got another one and it read the same. I will try and get all those numbers when he comes.
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    Ironman is there anyway you can talk to the tech working on my boiler. He is stumped?
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    On high fire
    Co2 is 9.96
    o2 is 7.4
    Co is 0 ppm


    On low fire
    Co2 is 10.11
    02 is 7.2
    Co is20 ppm
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 4,165Member
    What's the gas pressure? You're not getting enough fuel.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    3.5" wc
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    And if I open the throttling screw it raises the co2 WAY out of spec and the unit lights really rough
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 4,165Member
    edited May 16
    Is it 3.5" when the boiler is in high fire? What's the pressure in low fire? What type of fuel?

    Also, what size is the vent and intake piping and how long is the run?

    How about some pics of the boiler and its near piping as well as the vent termination?
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    3.5" on high fire. Didnt check low fire. You're running natural gas.
    Your venting is 2" out of the boiler that goes to 3" into a bazooka concentric kit. You are piped old school. No primary/secondary.
  • stever1000stever1000 Posts: 24Member
    Idk if those pics help or tell me if you want more pics or whatever
  • DZoroDZoro Posts: 300Member
    Is there a dirt leg in the gas line? It's hard to see from the pic.
    Good chance the valve is not working properly anymore.
    How high off the ground is the concentric?
    How close are any corners of the home to it?
    Do either the exhaust or intake pipes have black staining/sooting on them?
    Horizontal concentric venting can cause combustion air to enter the intake and cause failure of the venturi and or gas valves. Especially over many years.
    D
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