New to Steam, Question about dirty water

drfronkonstein

Got this house in July. Water has always been crystal clear. Had it serviced in September, where they did drain and test the LWCO, etc. Clean water until today where I turned the heat on for the first time. Heard some definite hissing from one of the radiators which was letting steam out of the vent. Clearly that needs updating. Anyway, though, the sight glass water is now pretty dirty. Is this from the pipes and radiators not having been steamed up in a year? It's not incredibly dirty like mud but it looks Like rusty water. Is this okay, or tomorrow after work should I do a blow down from the bottommost drain and refill?

BobC

The work they did may have stirred up some mulm on the bottom of the LWCO and the boiler. i would let the boiler do it's thing for a couple of weeks and then drain a a gallon or two (until it runs clear) and see how it looks.

Bob

Fred

Did they just drain enough water out of the boiler to test the low water cut-off or did they actually drain the boiler completely and refill it? It's okay for the boiler water to be a little brown, like a tea color but if it is much dirtier than that, it's probably a good idea to drain it, flush it out a bit and fill it back up to the normal water level. You should also take the Pressuretrol (gray box) off of the pigtail (looped pipe) and wash the pigtail out. If they get clogged, they can cause the pressure to build as the Pressuretrol can't see the system pressure. Pressuretrol should be set at:
If this is a Gray box (Honeywell #404)
Scale on front: .5 PSI (adjust with the screw on top of the unit)
Open the front cover and there is a white wheel inside . Set that to "1"
If this is a unit with a clear plastic front and two scales on the front, and it says " subtractive Differential" set the main scale to 1.5PSI and the differential to "1"

Jamie Hall

If the water is tea coloured -- even rather strong tea -- it's quite normal. If it's somewhat muddy seeming, I'd take @BobC 's suggesting and let it do it's thing for a while. It's quite likely that on startup this fall some of the rusty stuff in the wet returns has moved into the boiler.

I'm not a big fan of draining and refilling a steam system, since the water in there and the wetted pipes and all -- wet returns and boiler -- will reach a chemical equilibrium after a while. Draining and refilling will upset that. Which is not to say that if you find that a wet return is slow, you shouldn't flush it out -- you should. Also things like float type low water cutoffs. And perhaps flush a few gallons out of the mud legs on the boiler once a year. But a complete drain and refill? Not unless some nasty foaming boiler chemical has gotten in there somehow...

drfronkonstein

It was just to test the low water cutoff. I think for good measure I will drain a few gallons out of the lower drain. I have a box with two scales like suggested, they're set basically to that right now. The system seems to be working fine. It didn't "bang" until now a few hours later, once every half hour or so, but it sounds more just like radiator contraction/expansion. I'll post a picture of the sight glass just to verify, I think it looks like tea, myself.

Thanks you guys for your help

BobC

Even though you haven't heard this noise before it's possible something they did changed conditions slightly.

Is the water in the sight glass jumping up and down? Maybe the boiler needs skimming.

Make sure you don't have pipes trapped in place by the holes they pass through. That steel expands as it gets hot and binds against those holes until the expansion forces it to "jump" to relieve the stress. You can slide a piece of plastic milk jug into a suspect hole to see if that does any good.

Bob

drfronkonstein

I was there the entire cleaning watching him, they didn't change any settings on anything, or even touch any valves but the LWCO.

At any rate, no, the water does not jump up or down, it stays still.

The "bangs" could be the steel pipes... It was very in frequent, maybe 3 the entire night, and they didn't appear to be similar in magnitude or even location. It sounded more like things getting up to temperature, like you suggested. I will go to each through-hole and take a look, tonight.

Another note, the water, as everyone suggested here, nearly completely cleared up this morning on it's own; it's almost completely clear!

Really appreciate everyone's help and haste! What an active and wonderful forum here with some serious knowledge! Thank you.

On a side note, does anyone have any good recommendations for radiator vent manufactures, or which ones to stay away from? I've got to replace two of them.

nicholas bonham-carter

What’s wrong with the vents you have?
Hoffman’s will last for years. You want slow vents on the radiators, and fast one like the big mouth on your main returns.
The main vents do all the work of air removal at each firing, so allowing the air to escape quickly at low resistance will decrease the firing time and therefore gas consumption. This justifies the investment in the vents themselves.
On my big 55 rad system, I have 18 Gorton 2’s on 6 dry returns-a big cost, but justified by the ease with which the air escapes.—NBC

drfronkonstein

I need new ones because they're broken and leak actual steam out. I've heard many speak highly of Hoffman's, I'll probably go for them. I'll try and get exactly the same ratings for the two I'm replacing. Thanks for the help.

drfronkonstein

What should these settings be, normally?

(Picture coming soon, two dials, one is DIFFERENTIAL the other CUT-IN POINT.) Currently they're set to 1.75 and 0.5.

I ask because my boiler doesn't seem to cut back in until about a 4 degree temp differential: that is, if I have it set to 63, it won't kick in until about 59. How do I need with this to get that to be a but more even?

Thank you!

Fred

Your problem is more likely a Thermostat problem and has nothing to do with the Pressuretrol.
What model Pressuretrol do you have? If a PA404 (additive)(gray box) The Cut-in should be set at .5 and the differential set at "1"

If it is a Subtractive Pressuretrol (clear plastic front) The "Main" should be set at 1.5 and the differential set at "1" which will give you a Cut-in of .5 PSI.
Again, the Pressuretrol settings is not causing your 4 degree temp swing.

MilanD

Your thermostat is probably broken. Pressure setting on pressuretrol has nothing to do with the room temperature. If your heat is set to maintain at 63 and boiler doesn't come on until it's 59, you need a new tstat.

drfronkonstein

Good idea. I'll replace it! Anyway, as for the pressuretrol is neither what you have described. For some reason Imgur won't upload my photos but I will add them. It's a honeywell, I think, but I cannot find the model number anywhere.

Fred

@drfronkonstein It must be a really old one. Both of the ones I described are Honeywells but models used over the past 40/50 years.

drfronkonstein

Almost certainly. The boiler is at least 70 years old and almost nothing in this house has ever been updated (1920 construction).

Finally got it to load: https://imgur.com/gallery/H1cuc

What should this one be set to?

Fred

@drfronkonstein , it's impossible to tell if it is a "subtractive" or "additive" Pressuretrol. In any case, it is set close enough to where it needs to be that I wouldn't change it. If you find that it is marked "additive" somewhere on the unit or inside, you could lower the Differential a little to about 1.5 but it is really close enough.

SlamDunk

THAT is a work of art!