Richardson boiler question

SMB

Hi,
I have a 1930's Richardson B&W and was doing some research on it when I found this site. Hope someone can help me identify two blocked off ports on the control tree. The ports are circled in red. Any ideas what they were used for??
Thank you very much.

Danny Scully

They are just try cocks. It’s the original way to confirm the water level.

EBEBRATT-Ed

If your still running that boiler (and you want to protect it) you should replace that old low water cut off (it's either a WATTS or a Honeywell) they are old, unreliable and have a mercury switch.

Install a new McDonnell Miller #67

Make sure all the interconnecting piping and water column gets cleaned and flushed

New England SteamWorks

We want more pictures please!!!

SMB

Thanks for the information. The McDonnell Miller #67 is on my to do list along with the jacketed oil line. Copper tank was in service when I bought the place in '94. Looks cool so i kept it there. Here's some pics. Just had her annual cleanup.

STEVEusaPA

Wow! A stack relay...I mean...
Yikes! A stack relay.
I do like the classic Carlin burner.
Copper tank is cool, too

EBEBRATT-Ed

Probably be a good idea to scrap the old stack control while your at it. You certainly take good care of that's a beauty!!!

Do you have any combustion efficiency #s for it??

Do you know what the radiation load connected to it is? What's your firing rate?

Fred

What a beauty!! I'm glad you appreciate it enough to take the care you do to keep it in such wonderful shape!

SMB

Thanks. I bought the place from the original family. House was built in 1930. He told me, "Have it serviced yearly and blow it down weekly". So that's what I did and eventually started doing the annual tuneups myself. Just ran a combustion analysis today.

O2 : 6.1
CO : 41ppm
Stack: 600deg F
Eff: 76.8%
EA: 41.2
CO2: 11.0
#0 Smoke

Burner runs a 1.10gph 60deg SS nozzle

Here in the northeast I generally use 500+/- gallons of oil yearly.

What's a radiation load?

Fred

@SMB said: What's a radiation load?
What is the total EDR of all radiators connected to the system?

EBEBRATT-Ed

You Co ppm is a little high. Was the boiler warmed up and hot when you tested it? Co MUST be below 100 and should be below 50. You have that but don't want it any higher

I would check the radiation load and perhaps you could drop the nozzle to 1.00 gph and readjust. It might lower your stack temp a little bit. It the combustion chamber insulating firebrick or hard fire brick?

500 gallons/year seems pretty good

mikeg2015

I love how everyone assumes efficiency on these old boiler is terrible, like 50% or something. But with a modern burner and good draft control, it shows they aren't that bad. Sure, it's not 85%, bit 76% is damn good.

Was the copped tank a tub & shell HE for DHW? OR some sort of condensate collection tank or feed water storage tank?

STEVEusaPA

76% is the burner efficiency. Total system efficiency is down in the 50's, not good at all.

SMB

"What is the total EDR of all radiators connected to the system?"
I will figure it out when I get some time

"It the combustion chamber insulating firebrick or hard fire brick?"
Not sure. here's a pic... How's the condition of this? Never touched it.


"Was the copped tank a tub & shell HE for DHW?"
It was used to store the DHW. Taken out of service in '96 when a gas fired hot water heater was installed.

"Total system efficiency is down in the 50's"
Will the EDR help in determining this? Like I mentioned earlier I use roughly 500gal a season. Average size bungalow.

"you could drop the nozzle to 1.00 gph"
It's funny you mention this. Looking back at service records it was running a 1.00gph nozzle and for some reason a 1.10 was installed back in '98 and has been that way ever since.

EBEBRATT-Ed

The combustion chamber is in good condition however it is precast made out of hard firebrick.

If your going to keep the boiler, line the chamber with a wet pac blanket and cut the nozzle to 1.00 and readjust the burner.

measure the diameter of the chamber you should be about 90sq inches of area for each gallon burned so for instance a 1.10 nozzle would require about 99 square inches (1.10 x 90) chamber diameter of 11"-12" would provide this.

John Mills_5

Of course that 76% efficiency is after the relic is fully warm. AFUE, annual efficiency, looks at the heat wasted up the chimney as the old beast warms up and the heat wasted as it cools back down. That's what's closer to 50%.

Jamie Hall

On the other hand, one is inclined to ask... what is the true system efficiency of a modern boiler? Sure the numbers come out to say 85% (or 96% on a good day for a mod-con!) but what is the real efficiency? Granted, not as low as the "relic" might be (maybe...), but certainly not that high, on a yearly basis.

I liken it to cars: for quite some time I had a Honda Civic Hybrid (my son has it now, with 250,000 miles on it and it's going strong, although the body is getting a bit lacy). The EPA said, as I recall, 30 city/40 highway. Well... not so much. Depending entirely on how I drove it and where, it could be as low as 22 or 23 or, if I were to hypermile it on reasonably level country roads, I could get it up to 51.

Now we do a little better with our combustion calculations -- they aren't actually all that bad, although there are some slightly shaky assumptions involved -- but they are one shots while the burner is running and the system is warmed up. But is that representative of real system efficiency, in terms of converting money (fuel!) into heat? Um... no.

SMB

Regarding efficiency, this "relic" averages 500gal of heating oil per year. Is this wasteful in comparison to a new system? BTW, it's an average size bungalow kept at 68deg when i'm home. Location is RI.

Jamie Hall

SMB said:

Regarding efficiency, this "relic" averages 500gal of heating oil per year. Is this wasteful in comparison to a new system? BTW, it's an average size bungalow kept at 68deg when i'm home. Location is RI.

Possibly. Not enough information to say. However, consider this: suppose you could manage to raise the efficiency enough to cut your fuel consumption by a third. Say 150 gallons saved per year. Now.. how many years of saving at that rate would it take to pay for a new boiler? Um... quite some time.

MilanD

I wish our boiler will last 80 years...

EBEBRATT-Ed

Running efficiency is probably not
too bad.

Standby loss after it shuts down is higher due to it's large mass
Warm up time is longer due to it's high mass
therefore efficiency is reduced due to it's high mass

It's lasted this long due to it's high mass

New England SteamWorks

My professional opinion is: with a system as unique as yours, you'd be nuts not to invite me some time to take a look.