Big Mouth air vent update

Sailah

Hi,

So I figured it would be easier to update everyone here since I'm getting angry pitchfork mobs emailing me...

I am expecting in parts to fill all orders I have by next week. Will be shipping orders I have written down on my master list in order they were placed. After I have filled all orders I'll be sending stock to Amazon. That may be a few weeks until it's available in their system.

Sorry for the delay we had an unexpected rush mid summer but going forward we will be well in hand.

Thanks and happy venting

Peter

Fred

Keep em coming! You created a market that will probably continue to grow. We don't want a lack of availability to stifle sales unless, of course they aren't profitable for you. Even then, I think most of us would pay a bit more for them for their quality and capacity!

Sailah

Pricing will remain as it is, we feel it's a good price point for the value. Unless anyone wants to pay more....

Thanks for your comments.

Peter

New England SteamWorks

Yeah!

Sailah

Just got notice I'll have a first run of parts in tomorrow, will be shipping the first vents tomorrow, can have everyone completed by next week.

Appreciate the patience.

gerry gill

Sounds like you have a winner there Peter! Glad your hard work is paying off in sales.

New England SteamWorks

Got mine today!

hboogz

Thanks for the update @Sailah Looking forward to when Amazon has stock. If there is a link where I can purchase in advance, please let me know.

Harry

Sailah

I got a note that my discs are being done today with enough qty to make everyone happy that is already on my list and plenty to send to Amazon. I already have everything else prepped and ready. Should be next week I'll be shipping out.

Thanks again for patience.

Phil53

Wish everyone would quit buying and selling stuff on Amazon. They are a truly evil company that is ruining retail. They don't pay their employees a fair wage and always want huge tax breaks and incentives to locate facilities. They often compete with and undercut their own vendors. There are alternatives to buying from them most of the time.

Sailah

I'm sure there are alternatives but I'm a manufacturer. I'm not set up for retail and everything that leaves my building is usually bulk packed and sent by truck on a pallet or UPS. Retailers don't want to sell the Big Mouth because I built it really for Heating Help folks and to keep the price down I almost need to sell direct. Amazon does that better than anyone and I've been very pleased with my entire experience.

Retailers take an enormous chunk for the privilege of sending me a PO and having me drop ship to customer and I lose on UPS when I do that. The economics of distributor multipliers isn't always so black and white to a customer standing at a counter.

You do have some valid points and I'm not categorically rejecting your entire premise for hating on Amazon.

For us, it represents a tiny portion of sales. The vast vast majority of my time, support and products goes to our great retailers and distributors that serve the industry and that has loyalty going back to the early 1900s.

The Big Mouth vent, as I have always maintained, was a collaborative effort among many interested Heating Help members. I didn't invent the idea. I took the suggestions & testing and paired it with our manufacturing capabilities to offer back thanks, and a better product to those that wanted it. I enjoy all my correspondence with the people on here, many have my cell phone number and enjoy texting me at all hours of the day whether they are a professional or home owner I give everyone the same amount of time.

If a retailer wants to step forward and take over all distribution of the Big Mouth 100% I'd be more than happy to bulk pack them and ship them by truck. But customers are not going to like the pricing that they get and will go to something else.

Sailah

Oh and your comment about them competing with their own vendors is funny because they did it to me once. I sell a very specific steam trap as an OEM part to a large company. They are the only ones that buy it but customers kept calling us because our name is on it.

So rather than sell onesy twosy, I noticed the part was being sold on Amazon by a reseller and also by Amazon themselves. So I sent some stock in to their distribution centers.

Without getting into a whole saga of how their fulfillment centers work, basically you can sell your own stuff on Amazon, as I do, but I use them for fulfillment which is why Prime members get free shipping. The other option is Amazon will buy directly from you and sell it themselves. Which is what Amazon was doing in this case except they were buying it from my OEM customer.

I got into a bidding war with them, all for hahas, and I finally got them down to WAY below what I even charge my OEM. I knew there was no way they could possibly be buying it for that and they retreated, so we got the price back up to normal levels. And they did it again. So I went down to $0.01. I sold 10 in an hour and laughed the whole way. I finally called the guy I deal with there and said "You're not going to beat the manufacturer on pricing so maybe you should focus your efforts some where else"

He laughed and I haven't had it happen again.

ChrisJ

Phil53 said:

Wish everyone would quit buying and selling stuff on Amazon. They are a truly evil company that is ruining retail. They don't pay their employees a fair wage and always want huge tax breaks and incentives to locate facilities. They often compete with and undercut their own vendors. There are alternatives to buying from them most of the time.

Do you feel the same way about Newegg? Supplyhouse? McMaster?

What about Walmart? I mean, they're "retail" right?

What about Home Depot and Lowes? You know, the companies that drove all of the really good small hardware stores out of business? They're also retail.

Phil53

ChrisJ said:

Phil53 said:

Wish everyone would quit buying and selling stuff on Amazon. They are a truly evil company that is ruining retail. They don't pay their employees a fair wage and always want huge tax breaks and incentives to locate facilities. They often compete with and undercut their own vendors. There are alternatives to buying from them most of the time.

Do you feel the same way about Newegg? Supplyhouse? McMaster?

What about Walmart? I mean, they're "retail" right?

What about Home Depot and Lowes? You know, the companies that drove all of the really good small hardware stores out of business? They're also retail.

Yes, HD, Lowes, and WM have destroyed independent retail and Amazon is now destroying them. No one will worry about monopolies until we have no competition. WM cost US taxpayers anywhere from 5 to 9 hundred thousand dollars per store to support employees with rent subsidies and medicaid because the pay their employees so little. In addition they usually work out property and sales tax rebates so local govt gets screwed as well. Consolidation, fewer jobs, lower wages, less variety, and crappier quality products - isn't the free market great? Guess I hijacked this - sorry.

JUGHNE

If, and a big if, Sears had gotten on line 10-15 years ago they would be where Amazon is today. They have had the connections of vendors, advertising, credit payments and a major customer base for 100 years. But they had to re-label most things. That ship has sailed.
But, just think if you could buy the "Big Mouth" from Sears?
They used to sell everything.

ChrisJ

JUGHNE said:

If, and a big if, Sears had gotten on line 10-15 years ago they would be where Amazon is today. They have had the connections of vendors, advertising, credit payments and a major customer base for 100 years. But they had to re-label most things. That ship has sailed.
But, just think if you could buy the "Big Mouth" from Sears?
They used to sell everything.

There's something I'm still baffled about.
Sears was the original Amazon. The Sears catalog........buy a ton of stuff no one else has. Sure, you had to wait a bit, but it was still there.

Then Sears dumps the catalog just as online retailers are catching on.

I don't get it!?!?

Phil53

Just think if every plumbing supply place had exclusive rights to sell these vents and traps. Sure they could sell them on line or take orders to ship USPS or UPS. This would allow the communities they sell in to benefit. Every dollar spent through independent retailers returns 43 cents to the local economy, chain retailers about 11 cents, Amazon (most cases) 0 cents. In Amazon's case they undercut UPS and the USPS through their own deliver service where employees are paid very little with no benefits just like the rest of their operations. Just support local independent retail, they are the ones that support your community - schools, FD, PD, and other services.

JUGHNE

As far as Sears goes, I am guessing it was run by a bunch of old greyhairs or nohairs like myself who thought they had it made.

But, in hindsight, if a simple greyhair dude like me thinks about that today, they should have had a heads up 10 years ago. Why wasn't I put on that board??

Fred

I think one of Sears greatest downfalls was their approach to retaining their customers. For years, whatever you bought had some custom part or component that they thought would force repeat customers. Water heaters connected with flex connectors that were standard on the end that connected to the house line but was an odd size or thread on the tank side, washers the same way, dryers used different heating elements, nothing was standard on the sears side of an appliance, furnace, water heater, etc., all proprietary. What that did was cause customers, like myself to buy anything other than a Kenmore brand product. By the time they realized they killed their loyal customer base, they were too slow at broadening their product line with the alternative brands that people had come to trust.They just couldn't survive selling clothing and/or Craftsman tools.

MilanD

> @Fred said:
> I think one of Sears greatest downfalls was their approach to retaining their customers. For years, whatever you bought had some custom part or component that they thought would force repeat customers. Water heaters connected with flex connectors that were standard on the end that connected to the house line but was an odd size or thread on the tank side, washers the same way, dryers used different heating elements, nothing was standard on the sears side of an appliance, furnace, water heater, etc., all proprietary. What that did was cause customers, like myself to buy anything other than a Kenmore brand product. By the time they realized they killed their loyal customer base, they were too slow at broadening their product line with the alternative brands that people had come to trust.They just couldn't survive selling clothing and/or Craftsman tools.

So basically, corporate greed killed Sears - tactics they wanted used to retain customers drove them away. And the fact that quality products from their competitors became available. I don't know - this corporate attitude of "profit only" will be (and is to an extent), downfall of capitalism. At some point there has to be "good enough" on profits, and "good for the society" balance, or we're on our way to oligopoly and plutocracy (some academic research says we are already there).

Fred

@MilanD , I think that played a huge role in their demise. I have to say they did this when there weren't as many options for the consumer and their products had stellar reliability. As competition grew, quality equalized (Sears moved to less expensive products and even rebranded the very same competitor's products to compete but tried to fool the consumer into believing these products were the same quality as their older offerings), they still tried to sell their offerings as superior and missed the boat.
One can compete on price and recognize they are selling a cheaper/lower quality product or sell to a higher level market with a higher quality product. The two, more often than not, are totally different audiences with different expectations. Too many options available today and too many people who will accept a 'middle of the road" quality or even less. We, as consumers don't appreciate quality or expect products to last 20, 30 or more years like we did 50 or 75 years ago. We often only want a product to last just a few years so that we can get the next generation product with all the new bells and whistles, even though we don't need them and probably won't use them. The consumer has to accept a lot of the blame for our current conundrum. JMHO.

BobC

Sears had been mismanaged for years before the internet came along. I remember the old sears where stuff was piled high and the quality was usually good or at least acceptable. When they started to close the urban stores and open the big mall stores it was all about openness and space and the amount of stock on the shelves plummeted. Why bother walking in the store if they din't have you size or a complete selection of socket sizes?

At least you could still buy stuff from the catalog and get a great deal if you were savy. A few years before internet selling took off they sold all the catalog stuff off at fire sale prices and began the tumble into the abyss. They could have eaten Amazon's lunch with a little foresight.

It was a perfect example of what happens when people spend more time pouring over spreadsheet projections based on suspect data (a favorite pastime for MBA's) and ignore the evidence out on the sales floor. I'm not sure I'd lay the blame on the grey beards, more likely it was the high priced MBA's willing to do anything to prove they were right.

A pox on all of them.

Bob

ChrisJ

BobC said:

Sears had been mismanaged for years before the internet came along. I remember the old sears where stuff was piled high and the quality was usually good or at least acceptable. When they started to close the urban stores and open the big mall stores it was all about openness and space and the amount of stock on the shelves plummeted. Why bother walking in the store if they din't have you size or a complete selection of socket sizes?

At least you could still buy stuff from the catalog and get a great deal if you were savy. A few years before internet selling took off they sold all the catalog stuff off at fire sale prices and began the tumble into the abyss. They could have eaten Amazon's lunch with a little foresight.

It was a perfect example of what happens when people spend more time pouring over spreadsheet projections based on suspect data (a favorite pastime for MBA's) and ignore the evidence out on the sales floor. I'm not sure I'd lay the blame on the grey beards, more likely it was the high priced MBA's willing to do anything to prove they were right.

A pox on all of them.

Bob

And here's a perfect example of a grey beard being biased and laying the blame on the other people (young college kids).

Fred

@Sailah , now aren't you glad you posted an update on the BigMouth?

Sailah

Horses for courses

jch1

@Sailah any idea when they will be back on Amazon?

Sailah

I should have Amazon stock shipped later next week. Unless @Phil53 wants to step up to the plate and handle my retail sales.

I'm handling all orders I have on my sheet here at work before I get to any Amazon stock though so if you want one sooner, best to call and get on the list.

jch1

No rush. I have one Big Mouth and 4 Gorton #2s currently set up. How many Gortons would an additional BM replace?

Sailah

I think it's not exactly a 2:1 ratio but close.

BobC

The Big Mouths are a great vent, built like a brick outhouse, and a great value to boot. Just don't use them where you need something that needs to block water because they don't have a float.

Bob

Sailah

Last update:

We are well in hand and have plenty of stock to make vents, finally caught up after summer. I will make sure we have a bunch shipped to Amazon before I leave.

Friday is my last day at Barnes & Jones, but I'm reluctantly leaving. I very much enjoyed my time there and especially my interactions with all of you regarding the Big Mouth.


I'm still very much involved with steam with my new company so I'll still be active here.

Thanks again,

Peter

BobC

Peter you have helped a lot of here and I want to thank you for your efforts. I wish you the best with your new venture.

Drop us a line to let us know how things are going.

Bob in Quincy

Sailah

Thanks Bob. My new venture has quite a bit to do with your old profession of radios. I remember standing in your basement looking at your test equipment. I'm now learning that trade by necessity and starting at absolute zero. Fortunately i have a great systems engineer that knows far more than I do!!

Fred

Best of Luck in your new endeavor, Peter! Please stay in touch with us.You will certainly be missed.

Sailah

I'm not going to Siberia lol!!

Thanks Fred.

MilanD

Good luck Peter!

New England SteamWorks

Do we have any awards here at heatinghelp? Seems to me @Sailah (aka Peter The Great) should be in line for one, for his product contributions. He has been instrumental in helping me, my installations, and my customers.

LionA29

Good luck Peter, thank you for all your help!

Dave0176

Good luck Peter, I spoke with Andrew today he is direct shipping me two Big Mouths. As others have stated thanks for the helping with technological advancement in steam main venting. Products are manufactured like things used to be manufactured in this country pretty bulit proof. Also I’ve been using the Varivent more where space hinders the BM, and they perform flawlessly too.

Sailah

Thanks guys, glad you're happy and being taken care of. Andrew is a great resource, he's been at B& J a long time. He's really busy so I would just ask that people be respectful of his time.

I've always felt the VariVent was the unsung hero. To me, it's a really well engineered design. @gerry gill was the reason for that vent happening so make sure you send him your thanks.

Been a whirlwind few weeks getting my new company set up, installs at various locations. Totally enjoyable and frightening at the same time.

New England SteamWorks

Do you think we can get Andrew to join here? Those vents are pretty important to us, and it sure would be nice to have Andrew in our community.