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Is DHW considered Potable?

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JUGHNE
JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,074
This as most DHW would be used for hand washing, showers... Dishwasher etc.
No drinking or cooking use. Does the no lead apply for brass fittings or valves?
As I read the statements this could be a grey area.

Comments

  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,378
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    It comes out of the same faucet as the cold. It's temperature has nothing to do with whether it's potable (fit or suitable for drinking).
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    kcopp
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,801
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    OP are you referring to health issues or plumbing codes.....It is a gray area...Boston area for sure has lots and lots of lead feeds and mains...oh well
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,246
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    Even the folks that wrote the low lead code can't explain it :)

    A boiler fill valve backflow combo for example does it need to be low lead if the water is going into the boiler and has dual check or triple protection?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    I don't always use all low lead products for commercial washing systems. If it gets used for domestic proposes, human consumption/showers and such I do.

    Lead is a neurotoxin. Less is better.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,419
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    The short answer? Yes.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Jack
    Jack Member Posts: 1,047
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    I went through this with the MA Plumbing & Gas Board. I was representing the Metlund D'mand Recirc System, so, of course I took it to the Board and got shot down. I was shocked. The reason at that time and I do not know if it has changed is that Dow is not potable water. I said, well, what is the issue? You have potable cold water which goes into a water heater and comes out non-potable??? The explanation was that the breakdown of the anode rod and the accumulated organics in the tank create the non potable water. My response was, "You don't have a potable water issue. You have a water heater problem". I then suggested going total tankless in MA. The conversation went decidedly down hill from there
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    I think any time there is a "chance" someone will drink it, or cook with it yes.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
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    http://contractormag.com/eatherton/inadvertent-code-violation

    Good luck finding an interpretation. Even the bodies writing the codes can't come up with an answer...

    ME

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,074
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    I raised this question as I am looking for some good quality ball valves. Of course, the highest quality are the leaded ones from yesterday.
    But in reading the definition of non-potable water it seems that anything not used for drinking or cooking would qualify to that standard.
    I realize that almost all suppliers stock only NL devices.

    This project will need about a total of 15 valves. It is a hospital built in the early 70's. Most certain that there are 100's of feet of copper with 50/50 soldered fittings, brass stops and valves of that time.

    But thinking about this today:
    Some connect the icemakers to DHW, as it is suppose to make clearer ice as sediment will settle out of the water to the bottom of the tank.

    Some will just use DHW tap water to make tea or instant coffee with.

    Some will use hot tap water to get a head start on cooking time; such as boiling potatoes etc.

    But, as it is in our house and also the hospital, the hot water is softened and they want to avoid the salt.

    Not trying to get out of using the NL items, just see this as a grey area. Are there "lead police yet"? Our muni water system had to collect water samples to check for lead content. They were to take the first draw from a faucet in the morning. I thought this a little overboard as few people here do not let the water run for a few seconds before drinking. We do have some, (just a few remaining) old lead "gooseneck" connections at the main if you have iron pipe connection.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,419
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    I love @Jack 's comment! Indeed! if the water coming out of your water heater isn't fit to drink, but the water going in is -- you surely do have a water heater problem!

    Apparently it is a grey area, which is (to me) silly; as @JUGHNE notes, there are people -- including me -- who will use hot water for domestic purposes. For that matter, if you have a single handle faucet, the odds are that you will be, too, unless you are really a fanatic. So... treat it so. Or at least that would be my view...

    I honestly wouldn't have a problem using some regular valves instead of the NL ones in his application. On the other hand, I can easily see some AHJ's having a heart attack if he did.

    Sigh...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,246
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    I love @Jack 's comment! Indeed! if the water coming out of your water heater isn't fit to drink, but the water going in is -- you surely do have a water heater problem!

    Apparently it is a grey area, which is (to me) silly; as @JUGHNE notes, there are people -- including me -- who will use hot water for domestic purposes. For that matter, if you have a single handle faucet, the odds are that you will be, too, unless you are really a fanatic. So... treat it so. Or at least that would be my view...

    I honestly wouldn't have a problem using some regular valves instead of the NL ones in his application. On the other hand, I can easily see some AHJ's having a heart attack if he did.

    Sigh...

    I'd wonder about any liability down the road, especially in a public health care facility? I'd stick with an approved labeled component.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    IronmankcoppJUGHNEPaul48
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,074
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    No AHJ for the project. However the plan is to go with the NL components. If in the future there was a water sample test, finding the source of any traces of lead would be difficult.

    Actually the larger concern should be low water temps and Legionella/bacteria issues.

    BTY, WC supply tubes are NL, as is the replacement water fill valves. Wondering about the Sloan flush valves for WC & urinals. ;)
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,767
    edited May 2017
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    I was brought up never using hot water for cooking, eating, drinking etc. Was never given a reason, it was just something you never did.

    Over the years I've heard hot water is more likely to leach lead from old joints, that tank heaters are trash cans etc.

    But even though I never use it as such, I always assumed it was considered potable. I mean, the government tries to protect everyone from everything, right? How could they allow non-potable water to be available with the potable? Without some kind of bright neon colored flashing LCD warning tag?

    Actually, I guess it's mainly lawyers causing this, not the government. But you know what I mean.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Ironman
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,246
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    ChrisJ said:

    I was brought up never using hot water for cooking, eating, drinking etc. Was never given a reason, it was just something you never did.

    Over the years I've heard hot water is more likely to leach lead from old joints, that tank heaters are trash cans etc.

    But even though I never use it as such, I always assumed it was considered potable. I mean, the government tries to protect everyone from everything, right? How could they allow non-potable water to be available with the potable? Without some kind of bright neon colored flashing LCD warning tag?

    Actually, I guess it's mainly lawyers causing this, not the government. But you know what I mean.

    I wonder if the residentients of Flint, MI would agree with that statement

    Generally potable water lines develop a patina or slime that costs the pipe and fittings. This coating seal the lead so it doesn't leach

    If different treatment chemicals are used, it can strip away the coating and expose the lead pipes, joints and other nastiest.

    Plenty of transits pipe out there Aldo, it had absbetos in in.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream