Buying bank owned property... A couple boiler questions prior to home inspection.

carchidin23

Hi All,

My wife and I are currently in the process of buying a bank owned property and I am trying to do my due diligence prior to the official home inspection.

I'm looking for some advice in regards to some of the things I've noticed on this system vs the system in my current house (both oil fired boilers used for baseboard heating and domestic hot water)

1. No low water cut off present.

2. Instead of a 30# expansion tank a new st-12 was installed and a reducing coupling from 3/4 to 1/2 was used.


Is this ok? To code? What issues will this present in the future? I am in Connecticut and everything I have researched says CT follows 2012 edition of ICC.

Thanks,
Nick

ratio

Can you post some pics of the boilers & their piping?

carchidin23

carchidin23

I will try to get some more pictures, I was only there briefly today for a septic inspection. Pressure on the gauge seemed high 25+ and there was a slow constant drip from the pressure relief valve.

ScottSecor

Expansion tank appears to be the type used on domestic water systems, not heating systems, it also may be too small. If it's regular copper baseboard, I would think a Extrol 30 is about right, if it's a cold start boiler and cast iron baseboard you might have to upsize to a Extrol 30. Relief valve should be replaced once new tank is installed.

ratio

I don't know the code requirements, but no low water cutoff is probably an issue. The tank is sized by the water volume in the system & the original size is probably correct, neck size shouldn't matter but is dependent on the side of the fitting of the tank & the air scoop it's attached to. A static pressure of 25# is likely too high (corresponds to an attitude of nearly 60' to the highest heating pipe), and a drip at the relief valve is indicative of a problem, either with the valve itself or the system pressure.

EBEBRATT-Ed

a low water cut off was probably not required at the time this was installed but is something you should consider even if it is not code required in your area. It's a relatively low cost item

carchidin23

I agree about the LWCO not being code at the time so I don't plan on making a fuss about that and will install one once the deal is done. My main concern is why they put a new expansion tank in and why they would put that one in. I was under the impression the ST-12 was for something like a hot water tank and not an oil fired boiler. I also read that the ST-12 comes precharged at 50#. The house is a 2 story cape with the boiler in the basement.

Mark Eatherton

I agree. The ST 12 is probably undersized, and unless they adjusted the bladder pressure down to 12 PSI, it's probably not even functioning, as evidenced by the leaking relief valve. An ST 12 is the equivalent to a #15 expansion tank and has a phenolic lining to protect the steel tank from oxygen attack.

LWCO just recently became a code requirement on smaller residential boilers, and unless the boiler is replaced, the seller is not required to have one on board. There was a provision that if any piping was installed below the boiler (basement floor) a LWCO was required, but very few inspector enforced it.

Have them install a number 30 tank and a new 30 pound properly sized relief valve. If you want a LWCO, now would be the time to install it, but I wouldn't expect the owners to cough up the funds to do that.

ME

newagedawn

most hydronic boilers in my area dont require a lwco, you will notice a problem before the water gets that low,...or not???,...if it was a steam boiler than i would highly recommend one
the expansion tank is definitely not rated for your boiler its a 30 all the way, looks like a home owner fix,..lol,...happens!?

carchidin23

If it was a homeowner fix I could understand.. this was a vendor that the bank hired since it is a bank owned property.

Mark Eatherton

carchidin23 said:

If it was a homeowner fix I could understand.. this was a vendor that the bank hired since it is a bank owned property.

It is hard, and getting even harder to find good help.

ME

Zman

We saw a ton of houses where the bank tried to contract work on foreclosed homes 10 years back when foreclosures were everywhere. The simple fact is that banks do not know anything about homes and they see contractors as a commodity. They just hire the cheapest one they can find. When the contractor doesn't do the work correctly and the home freezes, they all just play the blame game and it works out fine because no one at the bank knows anything about construction and they write off the loss.

As stated, the expansion tank is probably too small and is probably set at the wrong pressure. If that is all the bank's contractor screwed up, you should consider yourself lucky. Go buy lot's of lottery tickets, you are on a roll!

You could try to convince the bank that they don't know what they are doing in regards to hiring contractors and try to get them to send a guy out to put in the correct $50 tank and set it to the correct pressure. Personally, I think you would be better off trying to teach your dog to speak french. Still a complete waste of time but nothing will get broken and the dog probably won't bit you.

I would double check that the PEX tubing on the ceiling is rated for heating systems.It looks like Uphoner hepex which would be the correct product. If it is something else, post a picture. Incorrect tubing would be an expensive mistake and one I would expect from a bank hired contractor.

Grallert

I could be wrong but it sure looks like the boiler was flooded.If the the cellar flooded and the burner was submerged I'd be looking at a new primary control and igniter.

Steamhead

Grallert said:

I could be wrong but it sure looks like the boiler was flooded.If the the cellar flooded and the burner was submerged I'd be looking at a new primary control and igniter.

You'd be looking at a completely new boiler, according to Burnham:

http://47ced92haata3bor58143cb74.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/US-Boiler-Co-Flooded-Boiler-Statement-October-29-2012.pdf

j a_2

carchidin23 said:

If it was a homeowner fix I could understand.. this was a vendor that the bank hired since it is a bank owned property.

Banks, in my opinion could care less, about anything except the profit...

Zman

Grallert said:

I could be wrong but it sure looks like the boiler was flooded.If the the cellar flooded and the burner was submerged I'd be looking at a new primary control and igniter.

You lost me on the flooded thing.
It looks like a walk out or garden level basement.
No water lines, spots on the floor in normal places, the boiler runs.
The OP made no mention of it to boot.

carchidin23

No flooding has taken place, there is a small amount of water on the floor by the boiler from the dripping pressure relief valve. It is a walk out basement. Boiler hadn't run in about 4 years but is operational now. Thanks everyone for the advice!

Grallert

I mentioned flooding because of the layer of what looks like silt on the burner. Happy to be mistaken:)

HVACNUT

Can you post a pic with the boiler and connected piping, including the extrol?
Is the scoop on split returns? If scoop is on the supply, where are the Flo valves?
The domestic ST12 is Pre charged to 40psi. I'm sure the knuckle heads who did the work didn't adjust it to 12psi.
For your LWCO concerns, you can install a Hydrostat with well in place of the Honeywell triple.
How much you plan to invest will of course determine the amount of work you want to put into that system, considering it's a dry base steel boiler with a tankless coil. Not the most efficient thing in the world.