Gas Grille outside, gas connector???

Gordy

LPGasman

https://ordering.fwwebb.com/woitem/182794

GW

Ed Yes it seems fine for the gas co to have the last word. Do you by chance have an example of the utility actually doing this?

The moritorium stuff is getting old, yet I've heard murmurings that it will end at some point

Sal Santamaura

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

...as far as stoves connected in the back you screw a nipple and a 90 onto the stove and drill a hole in the floor. Push the stove into position so that the 90 lines up with the hole in the floor. Then screw a nipple up through the floor into the 90. Gas cock and union in the basement.

You only have to run up and down the stairs 10 time to get this made up...

How does that work in a slab-on-grade house?

Fred

Sal Santamaura said:

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

...as far as stoves connected in the back you screw a nipple and a 90 onto the stove and drill a hole in the floor. Push the stove into position so that the 90 lines up with the hole in the floor. Then screw a nipple up through the floor into the 90. Gas cock and union in the basement.

You only have to run up and down the stairs 10 time to get this made up...

How does that work in a slab-on-grade house?

You bring the pipes up above the range or out to the side of the range where you can connect them.

ChrisJ

Fred said:

Sal Santamaura said:

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

...as far as stoves connected in the back you screw a nipple and a 90 onto the stove and drill a hole in the floor. Push the stove into position so that the 90 lines up with the hole in the floor. Then screw a nipple up through the floor into the 90. Gas cock and union in the basement.

You only have to run up and down the stairs 10 time to get this made up...

How does that work in a slab-on-grade house?

You bring the pipes up above the range or out to the side of the range where you can connect them.

You missed my question.
My stove cannot be connected from underneath, only behind. You can't get behind it with it in place.

The point is, if the house is on a slab, then what?

I use a flex connector my self because they're legal and they're safe.

Fred

ChrisJ said:

Fred said:

Sal Santamaura said:

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

...as far as stoves connected in the back you screw a nipple and a 90 onto the stove and drill a hole in the floor. Push the stove into position so that the 90 lines up with the hole in the floor. Then screw a nipple up through the floor into the 90. Gas cock and union in the basement.

You only have to run up and down the stairs 10 time to get this made up...

How does that work in a slab-on-grade house?

You bring the pipes up above the range or out to the side of the range where you can connect them.

You missed my question.
My stove cannot be connected from underneath, only behind. You can't get behind it with it in place.

The point is, if the house is on a slab, then what?

I use a flex connector my self because they're legal and they're safe.

@ChrisJ , I didn't miss the point. I was being sarcastic about a silly code that doesn't allow flex pipe connectors. The only way to connect a range on a slab house would be to "Bring the pipe above the range or out the side of the range" Get it? I thought it was funny but maybe not?? I suppose I could have said: "They're not allowed to build slab, on grade houses in MA."

Paul48

"The point is, if the house is on a slab, then what"?

Weber Grill

Gordy

electric stove,oven, dryer. No question a flexible connection is allowed.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Like I said flex connectors are allowed in MA but at one time they were not

@GW , yes we had a high pressure gas job in Worcester. We removed a 1200cfh furnace with a bad hx that was connected to an existing 5psi gas line 30-40 year old job. All the hp piping was welded, came in the building 3" and split off different branches but had threaded valves at the branches (this was perfectly legal when it was done) This was an emergency job as they had no heat. We installed 800cfh of gas fired radiant heat and some new low pressure piping and connected it to the existing gas reg (hi-lo pressure) that fed the furnace. So we reduced the load. Inspector was good with it and gave us a temp. permit

reason for the temp permit was we had to go back in the summer when we could shut down the hp gas, remove the old gas drop to the furnace and install a new hp reg up in the air.

Gas Co
made us do a complete gas drawing of the entire plant and all gas piping. Get it stamped by a PE

get a 2d permit

Remove some unused gas piping that was capped off and unused. Wasn't leaking just wasn't used.

Complained about the existing threaded valves because they don't meet code now

Insisted that we use a 2" gas regulator with flanged connections that is oversized & because they won't allow any threaded connections on HP gas. We only needed an 1 1/4" regulator but could only find threaded in that size so we had to use a 2"

In the past with high pressure you would install welded pipe but a couple of threaded joints where you reduced at a boiler gas train etc were always allowed...no more.

I complained to the state board about this and was told that the gas company can make there own regulations.

Apparently the code we use is the minimum and they can supercede it.

Another job had existing 25 psi gas into a boiler room with threaded pipe, legal when it was installed. We changed the boiler and the utility had a baby over it.

The customer agreed to pay us to replace it with welded pipe as the gas co told them it was a safety issue. Had been there 30 years, no leaks.

GW

Wow that's a tough one, good lesson

GW

So what are you supposed to do with welded....weld onto the gas valve? What do you mean you can't use threaded?

EBEBRATT-Ed

@GW in the past you could go up to 5psi with threaded pipe inside a building. If you were on a roof or in a boiler/mechanical room you could go to 50psi threaded.

Now it has changed because of recent explosions. Code changed in July 2015

"(b) Elevated Pressure
1. All elevated pressure systems shall be designed by a Massachusetts registered professional engineer. The design shall assure that the piping installation, including pipe sizing, dimension, and other aspects, meet the requirements for proper functioning, safety, and this code. The installer must submit drawings to the Inspector stamped by the engineer reflecting this design prior to being issued a permit. The installer shall also submit with the drawings a written statement from the serving gas supplier that it is able to provide fuel meeting the volume, pressure, and maximum gas demand required by the drawings as well as that required by any existing gas systems. The provisions of this paragraph shall not be in effect until July 1, 2015. Prior to July 1, 2015, elevated pressure systems shall be subject to the special permission requirements of 248 CMR 3.04(3).
2. Once the installation is complete but prior to final inspection, the installer must provide the Inspector with a written certification by a Massachusetts registered professional engineer that the installation complies with the stamped drawings and specifications. The Inspector shall not be responsible for approving or inspecting design specifications, but must ensure the installation adheres to the provisions of 248 CMR 5.00.
3. When the maximum design operating pressure exceeds five PSIG, all piping shall be welded in accordance with subsection 5.6.2.2.1.
4. Elevated pressure piping shall be labeled in the following manner: "

This is where the trouble starts. The code says up to 5psi can be threaded but the utilities is some cases will demand that it be welded if over 1/2psi or 14" wc

So you either buy the very expensive "BALOMAX" ball valve with welded connections or weld on a flange and use a flanged plug valve (which always leak)

Also I found out from the board even though it's not in the code (at least I couldn't find it) that mega press for gas can only be used where threaded pipe can be used. In other words if threaded meets the code and the utility requirements then megapress could also be used on that job

ChrisJ

Do the welds have to be inspected?

Any plumber worth anything should have no problem getting NPT threaded joints to seal gas reliably up to 150 PSI. I don't know off the top of my head, but I'm betting the pressure rating of a properly made NPT threaded black iron pipe is several hundred pounds.

5 PSI is a joke.

I've got NPT connections holding 3000 PSI on a pressure washer, leak free with nothing more than Meganloc, but that's a liquid.

ratio

That's what occurs when you move a technical issue into the political realm where the players (understandably, mind you) have little technical understanding. You get all kinds of extremes, either so little regulation/control that anything goes, or so much that the requirements are mutually exclusive. Not too often do you end up just right.

It often plays out as:

• Something must be done.
• This is something.
• Therefor, this must be done.

GW

Yes like connecting a sink to a furnace vent, there should be labels so that know not to do that
( Non professionals, that was a joke)

Gordy

To avoid nuisance calls. Like hello I got salad, and asparagus tips coming out my boiler vent pipe

Paul48

I thought that was an Insinkerator.

lchmb

ChrisJ I work for an lp supplier...;) so it's not as bad as it seems for me..I also use it to heat my garage (limited) and my clothes dryer..i use about 100 gallons a year so not really to big a deal. I to however cook on my grill year round... I do like that I dont have to haul a 20lb tank...

ChrisJ

lchmb said:

ChrisJ I work for an lp supplier...;) so it's not as bad as it seems for me..I also use it to heat my garage (limited) and my clothes dryer..i use about 100 gallons a year so not really to big a deal. I to however cook on my grill year round... I do like that I dont have to haul a 20lb tank...

What do you heat with? Heatpump?

lchmb

wood..:) have an oil boiler for hw and backup heat

ChrisJ

lchmb said:

wood..:) have an oil boiler for hw and backup heat

Ah.
Well I mean, if you don't have NG as an option, such as life.
Also as you said, sounds like LPG isn't bad at all in your situation. Those 20 pound tanks are a major pain.

lchmb

where I live I suspect NG will be here in about 100 years..if we are lucky... Most rural area's in NH dont have it as an option although compressed NG is becoming something in commercial applications...

Henry

In Canada it is not an aproved method for a BBQ. It has to have a valve that prevents disconnecting the hose if open. It might also be in your NFPA54 code. BTW, I am a B149.1 and B149.2 voting member. I am not saying that your installation is dangerous.

Gordy

@Henry a valve that prevents the hose from being disconnected when the valve is on. Seems they do not trust the reliability of a quick connect fitting. Failure could happen if the spring fails since low pressure NG lacks the pressure to slam the piston shut as with an air compressor type of setup.

lchmb

The valves we use requires a shut off be closed in order to disconnect. It's not a cheap valve but I've only had one fail (leak on the shut off valve) which just happened to be my own house after a year... In the case of propane we have to verify the unit is approved to be connected to a tank bigger than a #20..

Charlie from wmass

Massachusetts accepts UL listing. Am I the only one that's been to continuing education classes?

Charlie from wmass

Massachusetts allows Flex connectors up to 48 inches long due to the increased girth of the Plumbing trade