counterflow drips

SeanBeans

my buddy sent me this picture.. he says the equalizer went straight down and tied into the return, no hartford loop.
should there be drips that create a wet return for the hartford? stupid question but i don't have my TLAOSH on me to verify


thanks

Jamie Hall

There should be a Hartford (or Gifford) loop; it's a safety measure. If there is, the equalizer -- which also functions as a drip -- is tied into the top of it, and is necessary to equalize the pressure in the wet return with the pressure in the boiler. Even if there isn't, however, there should be an equalizer from the boiler header down to the wet return to the boiler. It also serves as a drip, of course. Most counterflow systems will also have a drip from the steam main(s) down to the wet return(s). This serves to keep condensate from trying to go back down the riser(s) from the header to the main(s).

SeanBeans

@Jaime so in other words the way this system was piped was wrong? and they should add drips for each counterflow steam main?

Paul S_3

@SeanBeans A properly piped counterflow steam system should have drips piped after the riser from the boiler .... this is so no returning condensate drains into the riser from the boiler....i have replaced boilers on a few counterflow system and I install a Hartford loop....the drawing below is a system that I replaced a Boiler on... I re piped the boiler properly and added the drips , then piping them below the water line into a Hartford loop.... boiler was piped incorrectly and customer had water hammer and swishing noises in the system....after the piping correction system ran very quietly....the other picture is out of the well mclain/ Williamson boiler install manual .... I have piped boilers this way but added a Hartford loop which is not pictured....

Jamie Hall

SeanBeans said:

@Jaime so in other words the way this system was piped was wrong? and they should add drips for each counterflow steam main?

Well, yes. However, if it is quiet and working well, I wouldn't repipe it just because of that. When and if the boiler is replaced -- then yes, do it properly.

SeanBeans

They said it banged so loud you could hear it from outside

jumper

Some counter current systems worked better due to clever way that risers were attached to mains. Liquid running down the risers was directed directly to drip line (or bottom of main) to minimize interaction with steam.

JUGHNE

The only counter flow I ran across was a 2 pipe. The steam main and returns were run parallel to each other around the entire house with the same pitch back towards the boiler.
I am thinking for head room, put the headache pipes near the boiler. Not having a high steam main at boiler and then sloping down to the return which then also slopes down back towards the boiler. Avoiding the double sloping piping. Less pitch/slope and pipe size required for the main because not all the returning condensate was coming back at the steam.....only what condensed as the steam traveled.
Smaller run outs to rads being a 2 pipe system. Smaller piping to 2nd floor.

It seemed weird at the time but preformed as well as a parallel flow 2 pipe system with all of it's advantages.

jumper

Yes longer runs can be accommodated with counterflow especially with a low boiler room. Helps to drip into return if you have one.

JUGHNE said:

The only counter flow I ran across was a 2 pipe. The steam main and returns were run parallel to each other around the entire house with the same pitch back towards the boiler.
I am thinking for head room, put the headache pipes near the boiler. Not having a high steam main at boiler and then sloping down to the return which then also slopes down back towards the boiler. Avoiding the double sloping piping. Less pitch/slope and pipe size required for the main because not all the returning condensate was coming back at the steam.....only what condensed as the steam traveled.
Smaller run outs to rads being a 2 pipe system. Smaller piping to 2nd floor.

It seemed weird at the time but preformed as well as a parallel flow 2 pipe system with all of it's advantages.

SeanBeans

Outcome

joshvplumbing

Probably banging because no drop header. quickest fix start riser from boiler and run higher than steam main and then dropvdown before connecting

EBEBRATT-Ed

It's not piped right

but if it bangs all the time something else is wrong. Once the header gets hot there is little or no water in the two supplies between the boiler header and the two drips. Look for another problem. I don't see any water going back in the boiler supplies to cause a problem