Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

The New Light Ray Furnace

Ironman
Ironman Member Posts: 7,550
in THE MAIN WALL
The previous owner built this after his seven year old steam boiler failed: 32 flood lamps @ 150w each, enclosed in a plywood box lined with sheetrock. He was thoroughly convinced that his innovation was more efficient than a simple electric furnace.
Bob Boan
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
VDBLUSWEI

Comments

  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
    Amazing he didn't burn the house down....
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,315
    4,800 watts?
    That was enough to heat the building I guess?

    It would've possibly been more efficient if he used IR to heat people and stuff in the rooms directly.

    But putting light bulbs in a box.......................I don't know. :p

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

  • Sal Santamaura
    Sal Santamaura Member Posts: 534
    Just looking at the thread title (before clicking on it, then reading the original and subsequent posts) I thought Mestek had come up with a means to reduce the weight of its Ray boiler. :)
    kcopp
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,502
    That's just under 18,000 BTU's, The wiring doesn't look bad but it should have been built on a sheet of aluminum or steel to keep the smoke down.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,477
    I get 48 amps (@120volts) and 15,072 btus would only heat a couple of rooms.

    Lucky he didn't burn it down
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,550
    NY_Rob said:

    Amazing he didn't burn the house down....

    If you'll notice the upper left side, you'll see that it did catch on fire. It had a mechanical fan control inserted on the lower left side: I'm guessing the wiring over-heated repeatedly due to the slow response of the fan control.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,380
    All together now..............
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    kcoppIronmandelta T
  • Steve Ebels_3
    Steve Ebels_3 Member Posts: 1,291
    Add this one to the list...

    "Knows just enough to be dangerous"
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,276
    If only he had used LED's. So much more efficient and safer. ;)
    IronmanSolid_Fuel_Man
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,472
    Only if they were Warm whites.....
    IronmanSWEI
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,790
    Eh, electric heat is 100% efficient. Only apparent issue is the size of the box, equivalent resistance elements would take up a lot less room. Just size the conductors per the NEC & protect the lampies & it'll be as safe as any other electric heater.

    Still, not something I'd have in my house.

    Ironman
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Maybe it was an incubator for dinosaur eggs also.....
    CanuckerIronman
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,550
    ratio said:

    Eh, electric heat is 100% efficient. Only apparent issue is the size of the box, equivalent resistance elements would take up a lot less room. Just size the conductors per the NEC & protect the lampies & it'll be as safe as any other electric heater.

    Still, not something I'd have in my house.

    I have to disagree. The conductors were properly sized. He created his own appliance which was not tested or approved. I have no love loss for UL, but proper testing and approval by an independent agency serves as a necessary safeguard against such things.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
    If they were properly sized for the load(s) then they wouldn't have overheated. Depending on how hot those little EMT stubs got, should have been 125C wire I'm guessing.

    It's funny, just like the Eden Pure phenomenon, people don't comprehend that Electric heat is always 100% efficient. Can't improve on 100% (without stealing energy from somewhere else) like a HP.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,550
    edited January 2017
    Solid_Fuel_Man said:

    If they were properly sized for the load(s) then they wouldn't have overheated. Depending on how hot those little EMT stubs got, should have been 125C wire I'm guessing.

    Again, the wire was properly sized. A 10/3 cable, 240v with a shared neutral was more than sufficient to carry 4800 watts.

    What you're failing to see is that the wire was in the same compartment with the heat elements. No electric furnace is made like that: the wiring is separated by a metal barrier so it won't over-heat. It's not just the heat being produced in the wire by the current passing through it; it's the actual heat from the bulbs that cooked the wire.

    Add to that the fact that there was only a 10" inlet and outlet duct that was placed in the long part of the rectangular box, instead of the short sides, and it becomes easy to see how flawed the design was.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,502
    I remember building el cheapo process ovens back in the 70's using multiple 660 watt spiral glow coils and fans to circulate the air. I soon learned the fans and wiring had to be behind baffles to protect them from radiant heat.

    Empirical learning is great, you really see how things work by getting your hands dirty.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
    edited January 2017
    I guess I was thinking there was sufficient airflow and the porcelain sockets were operating at "normalish" Temps for incandescent lamps.

    He was essentially running an electric water heater load.

    Wrong on my part.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,502
    Another thing I learned was that copper wire is not good for high temperatures, we used to buy stainless steel stranded wire with a cotton/asbestos covering. I also used to make ring terminals from thin wall SS tubing.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Sooo what was sequence of operation? Bulbs on after fan. Post purge to cool bulbs.......
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,550
    Gordy said:

    Sooo what was sequence of operation? Bulbs on after fan. Post purge to cool bulbs.......

    No, bulbs on from stat, mechanical helix fan control turned on fan.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,790
    Ah, I missed that it was enclosed. That is, indeed, A Bad Idea, without the proper interlocks and controls.

Categories