Burnham IN6I or IN7I?

Ironman

Got a steam boiler install on a 115+ year old system. The old boiler was removed 10 years ago. The radiation survey + an ACTUAL piping calculation came to 158k btus.

I wanted to use an IN7I which has DOE rating of 173k btus. I can't get one for at least a couple of weeks. A W/M is at least 3 weeks out. My distributor has an IN6I which has an output of 144k btus. Should I go for that or is it too small? Total EDR is 555, but I don't need a 1.33 pickup factor since the actual piping loss is 25k btus.

Thanks, guys.

bulldoglax

where are you located, why a few week???

ChrisJ

Hatterasguy said:

You're looking at an 8% pickup factor.

This can be done but you'll probably regret it. It will be difficult to balance and you'll absolutely need venting on every riser in the building.

It will operate forever on no pressure.

I might do it as an experiment. You're not in the "experiment" business.

It's concerning because he calculated the actual piping losses, and he's below even that.

If that building needs 100% of it's radiation he's in trouble right off the bat, even if the system is balanced.

@Ironman is all of the piping that can be, insulated?
How about a WM EG-55? That'll give you an output of 167K.

You know how much I push smaller steamers, but even I wouldn't recommend the IN6. It's below your radiation and piping losses in a fairly large building.

ChrisJ

Or, maybe better yet.

Two IN4s?
Two IN5s seems like too much to me, but could work as well.


Not sure if you can mix and match when doing two setups. like an IN6 and an IN3.

New England SteamWorks

I think you did a new distributor! Also, I very much prefer a Weil EG over the Burnham IN.

New England SteamWorks

Weil has 3" supply trappings, a real and usable skim port, and Safgard instead of Cyclegard, amongst others. Plus, don't trust Burnham castings except MegaSteam.

New England SteamWorks

Peerless 63 series good too (except Cyclegard), if you can get that.

rbeck

I also like multiple steam boilers. Once the system is hot it works really well cycling off one boiler.

ChrisJ

Hatterasguy said:

A two stage gas valve with a larger boiler works even better. The twins are not valuable unless you must have the redundancy.

Sure,
Except that the twins run with the proper amount of excess O2 where your big boiler on low fire does not.

Assuming an atmospheric setup of course.


I recommended the twins as something he could do.
I suspect as you said, the cost will be too much and just not worth it, but it is an option.

Redundancy is nice.

ChrisJ

Hatterasguy said:

ChrisJ said:

Hatterasguy said:

A two stage gas valve with a larger boiler works even better. The twins are not valuable unless you must have the redundancy.

Sure,
Except that the twins run with the proper amount of excess O2 where your big boiler on low fire does not.

What is the "proper amount" of excess O2?

What does the "big boiler" produce on low fire as to amount?

Have you done any testing regarding your conclusions?

It's common sense.
Drop the manifold pressure and excess O2 goes up.

More excess O2 means lower efficiency.

Are you going to argue that?

ChrisJ

Hatterasguy said:

ChrisJ said:

Hatterasguy said:

ChrisJ said:

Hatterasguy said:

A two stage gas valve with a larger boiler works even better. The twins are not valuable unless you must have the redundancy.

Sure,
Except that the twins run with the proper amount of excess O2 where your big boiler on low fire does not.

What is the "proper amount" of excess O2?

What does the "big boiler" produce on low fire as to amount?

Have you done any testing regarding your conclusions?

It's common sense.
Drop the manifold pressure and excess O2 goes up.

More excess O2 means lower efficiency.

Are you going to argue that?

Never tested one for excess O2.

No idea about efficiency loss.

Wants to rely on "common sense".

OK.

Only one we ever tested and messed around with was mine.
You haven't even done that much.


But, just for the sake of argument.
@Tim McElwain Would you say it's fair to assume that if you reduce the manifold pressure on an atmospheric boiler, the excess O2 will increase therefore decreasing efficiency?

ChrisJ

Hatterasguy said:

ChrisJ said:

Hatterasguy said:

ChrisJ said:

Hatterasguy said:

ChrisJ said:

Hatterasguy said:

A two stage gas valve with a larger boiler works even better. The twins are not valuable unless you must have the redundancy.

Sure,
Except that the twins run with the proper amount of excess O2 where your big boiler on low fire does not.

What is the "proper amount" of excess O2?

What does the "big boiler" produce on low fire as to amount?

Have you done any testing regarding your conclusions?

It's common sense.
Drop the manifold pressure and excess O2 goes up.

More excess O2 means lower efficiency.

Are you going to argue that?

Never tested one for excess O2.

No idea about efficiency loss.

Wants to rely on "common sense".

OK.

Only one we ever tested and messed around with was mine.


You haven't even done that much.

What efficiency loss did you get when you used a two stage gas valve on yours?

That would be a factually incorrect statement.

It's not a factually incorrect statement, you can reduce the manifold pressure to whatever the low stage would be without another valve.

Ironman

Thanks guys.
I was told at least 2 weeks on the IN7 and 3 weeks on an EG-55. A 63-05L won't fit through the three 28" wide doors that it has to go through, so that's not an option.

It certainly not my favorite, but I got a 7 section Dunkirk that will be here on Monday.

As far as distributors: REM, Noland and Hajoca on the Burnham; Southern Refrigeration for W/M. Burnham told my REM rep that it was a "custom build" for the 2 IN7's they have on order already! Seriously?

I know that being in VA we don't have as much steam as the Northeast, but we've got a good bit around here and in Richmond and D.C.. I just can't believe that there's not more steam boilers stocked - especially by a distributor that has 325+ branches.

Ironman

A 4" header for one boiler. Wow. Looks like ECR has made so that I'll spend as much on near boiler piping as I did for the boiler itself.

Thanks for the info.

Ironman

From the sales brochure:



It looks like a M/M PSE801 that's up a few inches.

Danny Scully

@Hatterasguy, what is pictured? Is that (2) LWCO? One remote probe? Do I remember that pic from another thread, or is that yours?

Danny Scully

There's a 3rd in the block somewhere?

gerry gill

remember guys when tweaking load sizing, it is piping AND pick up factor, not piping pick up factor. Pick up factor is for coming out of setback, if your a police station for example, and manned 24/7 you don't really need a pick up factor as heat would usually be constant. You do however need piping factor.