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2 month old circulator not silent anymore

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gschallert
gschallert Member Posts: 170
in Gas Heating
15-58 3 speed circulator that ran almost silent for about five or six weeks is now rattling constantly when running no matter what speed it's set on. This was installed new in Oct along with a boiler. The noise is transmitting to all the baseboard piping and we're having to use white noise to drown it out. Since it was as silent as its Taco predecessor for several weeks should I try to get it replaced under warranty? Baseboards are heating well and are quiet except for this rattle coming up the pipe.

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  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    What's your system pressure? How's the pump mounted? With the motor horizontal or vertical?
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • stevieg
    stevieg Member Posts: 19
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    Agree with ironman, check the pressure, also If you have a flow or sweat check installed in the loop, they can make a chattering noise sometimes when the circ is running. Check the pressure and make sure the motor of the circ is horizontal and not vertical. Hope this helps you. Stevie G.
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,630
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    Most assuredly call the installer. Something happened between then & now. Maybe it's unrelated, maybe not.

    I myself, a vision of perfection, have been known to make a mistake in the past, but I always wanted it corrected.

    kcopp
  • gschallert
    gschallert Member Posts: 170
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    Ironman said:

    What's your system pressure? How's the pump mounted? With the motor horizontal or vertical?

    15 psi, pump mounted correctly with motor horizontal.
    stevieg said:

    Agree with ironman, check the pressure, also If you have a flow or sweat check installed in the loop, they can make a chattering noise sometimes when the circ is running.

    Thanks, that's exactly what it is, the IFC that came in the circ. I watched a youtube video this morning that took one apart and the noise is coming from the exact location of the check valve. I also noticed that it's worse when only one zone is calling for heat but if both zones are open the chatter is significantly reduced. What I'm not sure of is why it didn't chatter/rattle right from the beginning. Going to call the installer and see if they can/will do anything after the holidays since it's really annoying when the house is quiet and you're trying to read a book.

    I did find an online homeowner review of the same pump reporting the same issue after about 3 months in service although their fix was to change it out with a Taco.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    Do you have zone valves or multiple circulators for zoning? If zone valves, then the check valve should have been removed at installation. If multiple circs, then the check valve or a flow check for each circ is required.

    There are two recent threads that deal with this issue. Search for "banging noise" for more info.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    kcopp
  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
    edited December 2016
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    Over the weekend I replaced the IFC in my Grundfos 15-58 (used for the DHW indirect tank since July of this year) because of chatter noise too. I replaced it with the 1" inline flow-check from Caleffi (NA51069)... it's silent once again.

    Also replaced the IFC in the CH ALpha with a 1" Webstone Isolator Double Flange Check Valve as well to prevent future problems with it's IFC.

  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
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    If your t-stats operate the zone valves directly vs. using a zone control panel... you may still need a flow-check in the CH loop.
    If you don't have an indirect DHW tank then disregard the above :)
  • gschallert
    gschallert Member Posts: 170
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    Ironman said:

    Do you have zone valves or multiple circulators for zoning? If zone valves, then the check valve should have been removed at installation.

    There are two recent threads that deal with this issue. Search for "banging noise" for more info.

    Two zone valves and one circulator. I wasn't there for the install but from the rattling noise coming from exactly where the IFC comes pre-installed @ the outlet I'd guess it's still in there.

    I didn't see anything in the search results for "banging noise" sorry.
  • gschallert
    gschallert Member Posts: 170
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    NY_Rob said:

    Over the weekend I replaced the IFC in my Grundfos 15-58 (used for the DHW indirect tank since July of this year) because of chatter noise too.

    Thanks, I'm guessing you were hearing the same thing I am but it's so hard to describe because it's not loud like banging or gurgling just this constant rattle/chatter that the pipes transmit. I have a zone control panel. We'll see what the installer offers to do about it. I miss my Tacos, they were so silent I used to have to touch them to feel if they were running. Not impressed so far with Grundfos I have to say.
  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
    edited December 2016
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    I was hearing a "chattering/rattling" sound from the pump- it had been fine for a few months. This 15-58 pump was for the indirect DHW tank... so it only came on for maybe 10 min a couple of times per day vs. your much heavier use as a spaceheating loop pump.

    An easy way to see if you need the IFC or an inline IFC in the spaceheating loop would be to turn up one of your T-stats to produce call for heat, at the same time run a shower, load of wash, etc... or whatever it takes to produce a call for the DHW circulator circuit activate. Once the DHW circulator is running- see if your zone valve is still powered open- if it is- you need a IFC or inline flow-check in the spaceheating loop. If the zone valve(s) power off on a DHW circulator cycle- you don't need a IFC or inline flow-check.

    If it turns out you do still need a flow check in ths CH loop- both of the ones I linked in my previous post will give you silent operation again. The Grundfos pumps are really quiet- but their IFC's seem problematic.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    gschallert said:

    Ironman said:

    Do you have zone valves or multiple circulators for zoning? If zone valves, then the check valve should have been removed at installation.

    There are two recent threads that deal with this issue. Search for "banging noise" for more info.

    Two zone valves and one circulator. I wasn't there for the install but from the rattling noise coming from exactly where the IFC comes pre-installed @ the outlet I'd guess it's still in there.

    I didn't see anything in the search results for "banging noise" sorry.
    Here ya go:

    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/160208/loud-whoosh-and-bang-when-zone-valve-opens-not-closes#latest
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • stevieg
    stevieg Member Posts: 19
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    With the 2 zone valves, you can remove the IFC from the circ completely, make sure you get it all out of there, it can be tricky. It use to say not to mount the circ with the IFC installed pumping down, I have seen them plug up over time because boiler water can be some of the most disgusting stuff in the world. Yikes
  • gschallert
    gschallert Member Posts: 170
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    NY_Rob said:

    I was hearing a "chattering/rattling" sound from the pump- it had been fine for a few months. This 15-58 pump was for the indirect DHW tank... so it only came on for maybe 10 min a couple of times per day vs. your much heavier use as a spaceheating loop pump.

    An easy way to see if you need the IFC or an inline IFC in the spaceheating loop would be to turn up one of your T-stats to produce call for heat, at the same time run a shower, load of wash, etc... or whatever it takes to produce a call for the DHW circulator circuit activate. Once the DHW circulator is running- see if your zone valve is still powered open- if it is- you need a IFC or inline flow-check in the spaceheating loop. If the zone valve(s) power off on a DHW circulator cycle- you don't need a IFC or inline flow-check.

    If it turns out you do still need a flow check in ths CH loop- both of the ones I linked in my previous post will give you silent operation again. The Grundfos pumps are really quiet- but their IFC's seem problematic.

    Thanks. Will double check this later today but I assume the zone control would close any open heating zone when my 40 gallon indirect calls since it's zoned priority on the Taco ZVC404. Cheers for the links to the external flow checks, hopefully I won't need one.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    "Cheers for the links to the external flow checks, hopefully I won't need one."

    That's the point: not only do you not need one, you don't want one with zone valves. If it's still there (they come pre-installed), then it MUST be removed.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
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    As long as your Taco ZVC404 is wired and configured properly- you don't need the IFC's or any flow checks- but it's good to verify it's working as intended by having a DHW call interrupt a spacheating call and observe that the open zone valve(s) close.

    In a very simple layout (w/o zone control panel) where the t-stats operate the zone valves directly and their end switches go to the TT terminals on the boiler- you need the flow checks in both circuits as the t-stats will hold the zone valves open during a call for the DHW circulator.
  • gschallert
    gschallert Member Posts: 170
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    I watched as a DHW call closed the open CH zone so I called the installer and he is coming next week to pull out the IFC. He "didn't remember" if he pulled it out at time of install, but I told him about the rattling noise where it comes preinstalled in the pump outlet and he thinks maybe he forgot.

    What's the downside of having left it in? Other than the annoying rattle. Does it actually damage anything? It's just a flow check so I'm still a little fuzzy on why it MUST be removed.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    "What's the downside of having left it in? Other than the annoying rattle. Does it actually damage anything? It's just a flow check so I'm still a little fuzzy on why it MUST be removed."

    Read the posts by Harvey Ramer and myself in the attached threads.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • bob_46
    bob_46 Member Posts: 813
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    The homeowner is so upset he posted on a public forum. " The noise is transmitting to all the baseboard piping and we're having to use white noise to drown it out." It MUST be removed to eliminate the noise. I don't know if that helps with the fuzz.
    Happy Holidays.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • gschallert
    gschallert Member Posts: 170
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    bob said:

    The homeowner is so upset he posted on a public forum. " The noise is transmitting to all the baseboard piping and we're having to use white noise to drown it out." It MUST be removed to eliminate the noise. I don't know if that helps with the fuzz.
    Happy Holidays.

    Perhaps you missed my qualifier "other than the annoying rattle" or perhaps you weren't being condescending as **** on purpose.

    Anyway, my sincere thanks to NY_Rob & stevieg for using clear layman's language to explain. Happy holidays!

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