MegaSteaming In The Islands (Long & Rhode)

New England SteamWorks

New owners of a nice old house. They will be renovating and adding on an addition. Which means we get to play Deadmen and install new takeoffs and radiation. What fun.



Fortunately, we have Ilka onsite to help us along:

Ironman

More pics, please.

New England SteamWorks

This is a counterflow system, but with a twist. Instead of left & right branches, it was a continuous loop. Which meant: No main venting. Which in turn meant: Sawzall surgery.

I neglected to take a picture before the initial incisions, but this should give you the general idea of the back of the loop:

Sailah

Nice

New England SteamWorks

So after the initial incisions, time for the 701 so we can build an antler for Peter's vent(s)



A couple of fittings and some strainers later and we have venting, after all these years:

New England SteamWorks

But, not so fast. Notice something about the end of the now left branch? Pitching down... Seemed like a nice place for condensate to collect just prior to the vent and go bang in the night.

So... turn that 100 year old 90 up just a hair right? Big pipe wrench + even bigger persuader (36" 2" pipe nipple) should do the trick? No? Not! That old cast 90 exploded rather than turn.

And that old heavy 701 already returned to the truck and packed up? Back out you go, and there goes the margin in the bid!

Ah, the steamers life!

New England SteamWorks

By then it was thankfully time to head outside for lunch

Fred

Nice, Nice, Nice!

New England SteamWorks

Bellies full, time to head back to the basement.



Returns tied in:



Takeoffs for future addition:



Happy Hour:

New England SteamWorks

I know you don't, but we do:

Remember Ilka as a little pup? She never could resist a MegaSteam jacket carton:







More tomorrow.

Also tomorrow: @Danny Scully 's Megasteam!


Don't change the channel!

MilanD

@RI_SteamWorks

Very nice!

Are those king valves full port gate valves?

Also, how was the loop pitched before you made the 2 zones out of them: up from the boiler on both sides to where you made the cut?

Install looks beautiful!

New England SteamWorks

MilanD said:

@RI_SteamWorks



Very nice!



Are those king valves full port gate valves?




Yes


Also, how was the loop pitched before you made the 2 zones out of them: up from the boiler on both sides to where you made the cut?




Yes, they were both pitched up towards the back, but over the years the back got a little cock-eyed. We don't recall if cutting the loop open made it worse or not.


Install looks beautiful!

Thank you, you are very kind to say so.

EzzyT

@RI_SteamWorks beautiful install as always.

Danny Scully

Thanks for putting me on the spot @RI_SteamWorks! I'll post the Long Island MegaSteam tomorrow

Paul S_3

Nice job! @RI_SteamWorks

Danny Scully

Can we share threads @RI_SteamWorks?

New England SteamWorks

Absolutely @Danny Scully !

New England SteamWorks

Almost done, running real nice.

Back after Thanksgiving to insulate everything, then back when construction starts to play Deadmen.

Sailah

How could anyone look at that and not be thrilled as a customer? Everything neat, orderly, workmanlike. I especially like the file holder for all the manuals convenient. Gauges just so, no stooping to look at them. Well done!

Fred

Picture perfect! @RI_SteamWorks

New England SteamWorks

Hatterasguy said:

Do you have a specific reason to switch to 3" at the top of the risers versus right at the header?

Seems to be quite a bit of added cost for no gain?

The gain is in efficiency, which makes the additional "cost" an investment.*

In 1966 Robert Heinlein popularized the expression "There's no free lunch". That idiom is certainly true with steam boilers: you can pay upfront, or you can continually pay the fuel bills on the back end. Either way, there's a bill for lunch.

Another idiom important in design is: "Form Follows Function". Not much merit in anything, no matter how impressive the design, if it doesn't function.

*Dan Holohan. Greening Steam. Page 94.

New England SteamWorks

I apologize. I misunderstood your question. I thought you were genuinely interested.

Sailah

Speaking of Robert Heinlein, my favorite quote since I was a kid. I remember first reading it when we were kids at the Hurricane Island Outward Bound school in Maine.

I'm still working on the list...

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
— Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love[1][2]

Danny Scully

It's been a long day. All credit to @RI_SteamWorks, you make it look easy, and clearly it's not.

New England SteamWorks

No, it's not easy, is it? (Especially if you haven't got Ilka!) But that is a fine looking install. Well done. And a beautiful boiler, that MegaSteam. You do her credit.

And in your honor, I will change the title of this post. A little tropical flair, if you will.

I was so jealous of the job you recently did re-piping that house with steam. That was nice work! At least with this job, I can repipe an addition.

Question: CycleGuards drive me nuts and normally I can sell a SafeGuard as an add-on. In this job I could not. But I see your boiler has a McDonnell Miller. How did that come about?

hvacfreak2

Man , that is an exceptional job as usual.

FranklinD

I don't see any issue with the way he upsized his risers. I'm not a steam guy beyond what I've learned reading both this site and Dan's books, but to me, it would seem like any water droplets making their way up the risers would say "Weee!" and drop right out of the steam and down into the header once they hit those nice, wide, 3" riser drops.

If I was his customer I'd be MORE than perfectly happy with that install...it's mechanical artistry. Nothing wrong with going above and beyond on pipe sizing...and I bet it actually does make a difference.

Great job (and cute pup).

New England SteamWorks

Apropos of nothing, but maybe not: Because we sell oil I had the luxury of an extra day on my job, which likely @Danny Scully did not, and I certainly would not have had if it were a gas job. With an oil customer the job/sale is never finished. With gas, it is. You have to get in and out or loose your shirt. There's nothing after to cover a loss.

Something for folks to think about. Whatever your source of fuel, you'll have a bill. But with the gas company that is all it will ever be. A bill. With your oil company, it can be leveraged to great effect. Just ask me how...

SWEI

No longer living in oil country, but when we were I had a great relationship with our oil jobber. I knew bupkus about oil burners and the guys in the shop were very patient with me when I would bring in the old Lennox asking questions.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@SWEI hope it wasn't one of the old Lennox burners with the belt drive oil pump

Ironman

RI_SteamWorks said:

No, it's not easy, is it? (Especially if you haven't got Ilka!) But that is a fine looking install. Well done. And a beautiful boiler, that MegaSteam. You do her credit.

And in your honor, I will change the title of this post. A little tropical flair, if you will.

I was so jealous of the job you recently did re-piping that house with steam. That was nice work! At least with this job, I can repipe an addition.

Question: CycleGuards drive me nuts and normally I can sell a SafeGuard as an add-on. In this job I could not. But I see your boiler has a McDonnell Miller. How did that come about?

Great looking job as usual.

I'm trying to get Burnham to step up to the plate and deal with the two cycleguards on the MegaSteams we put in the church a couple weeks ago. So far, they haven't called me back even though they keep promising.

Not only is the off cycle function counter productive, the two don't cycle in unison after about 30 minutes of run time.

They say the function is to "help stabilize the water level". I take that to mean "we're trying to compensate for a knucklehead that installed the boiler on a system that has a clogged return". The control should have a means of disabling that "function".

Maybe if enough of us start hollering loud and long enough, they'll do something bout it.

Ironman

It makes about as much sense as stopping your car every 10 minutes to get out and check the oil.

It is, after all, a LWCO. If that's really their concern, why not just increase the off time and fill delay if the water level gets too low. That way, it would only address a problem that actually occurred, not one that was perceived that might occur.

Danny Scully

@RI_SteamWorks, I'm honored with the thread name change! It certainly would have been a luxury to have another day, or if Burnham made a 3" kit that was meant for the 288 (it took a little mixing and matching to make the 3" kit work on the 288). But, just like you started 3" at the top of the risers, it was worth it.

Sorry, I missed your question @RI_SteamWorks, the McDonald Miller came packaged with the boiler. Maybe something new?

New England SteamWorks

Danny Scully said:

@RI_SteamWorks, the McDonald Miller came packaged with the boiler. Maybe something new?

Hey, maybe there's hope after all?

hvacfreak2

Ironman said:

It makes about as much sense as stopping your car every 10 minutes to get out and check the oil.

It is, after all, a LWCO. If that's really their concern, why not just increase the off time and fill delay if the water level gets too low. That way, it would only address a problem that actually occurred, not one that was perceived that might occur.

I purchased mine last year and it came with the MM electronic. The IOM mentions at least 2 electronic units as well as the 67 float type. There is a page that gives the tubing cut sizes and required materials for the 67 as a diagram. If yours came with Hydrolevels they were ordered that way , or maybe just what was readily available to ship , but Megasteam does not require the Hydrolevel ( POS ) ...as of last year at least.

KC_Jones

RI_SteamWorks said:

Question: CycleGuards drive me nuts and normally I can sell a SafeGuard as an add-on. In this job I could not. But I see your boiler has a McDonnell Miller. How did that come about?

So you can't get the boiler without the trim and add your own? I am surprised they don't offer options that you can choose?

I know it's not this simple for them, but all those LWCO devices check the level continuously so why shut it down? I know the answer, but it just makes zero sense to me. If the boiler is performing that poorly I think it's an installation issue and maybe they or the supply house should stop selling these things to knuckleheads that don't know steam?

Not being critical just some speculation.

hvacfreak2

MST options attached , from page 9 and 19 of my install manual.

New England SteamWorks

"It would be preferable to run the 2" risers and put in the Safeguard for about the same cost."

Not even close Batman. The extra nipples and fittings cost less than $80.

Being as how this thread has already incorporated a bunch of idioms, another might be in order:

Those who can, do; those who can't, teach

Mad Dog_2

From My treestand....somewhere on The Isle of Long. Very windy today. EXEMPLARY work, man. Georgeous Shepard..is he yours or homeowners? Mad Dog

New England SteamWorks

Mad Dog said:

From My tree stand....somewhere on The Isle of Long. Very windy today. EXEMPLARY work, man. Georgeous Shepard..is he yours or homeowners? Mad Dog

Thank you @Mad Dog , you are kind to say so.

The Shepherd is all ours

Abracadabra

Hatterasguy said:

RI_SteamWorks said:

"It would be preferable to run the 2" risers and put in the Safeguard for about the same cost."

Not even close Batman. The extra nipples and fittings cost less than $80.

Being as how this thread has already incorporated a bunch of idioms, another might be in order:

Those who can, do; those who can't, teach

I found the Safgard for $75. and got rid of the Cyclegard. Beats your $80. (which bought you nothing).

Nice insult to Dan Holohan, probably the best teacher you'd ever find. Some people actually know more than you do.

I know prices are a no-no but I couldn't resist. A Hydrolevel Safguard 400 for $75? Where.. please.. at that price I'll buy a few dozen this season. My supplier can't come anywhere near that price.