New Steam boilers - Williamson versus Weil Mclain

MikeB001

I recently had a contractor install a new steam boiler and it works well and appears to follow all best practices I've read about. My question is specific to the boiler itself. I was quoted and expected a weil mclain eg 45 s to be installed. However the contractor installed a Williams GSA 150; I was told the EG 45 was back ordered and would take two weeks. The contractor did not tell me this upfront, I discovered this during the install.
From the little I've read the Williams is marketed as an entry level model, but they appear to be about the same from pictures and I was told they are the same.
I'm looking for advice....are these the same boilers? I'm happy with the install, but not happy I ended up with a entry-level boiler. Am I over-reacting?

nicholas bonham-carter

I hope he sized the boiler by measuring the EDR of the radiators.
Usually the advice here is: choose the competent steam pro first, and then go with his recommendation as to boiler selection.--NBC

MikeB001

Thanks for the reply....yes the radiators were measured and boiler sized accordingly. I'm only curious on thoughts on these two models and/or differences between the two.

Fizz

Numerically eveything is the same, from btu input, out put, efficiency, sq ft of steam, gal of water. Overall weight is greater on Williamson. As far as warranty, you can check with installer or your paperwork. Fizz

Paul S_3

I use Williamson mostly.....it seems to be the same boiler and i have no issues with about 95% of my installs.....(knock on wood)....Williamson is significantly less expensive....the only problem i see with most of the contractors when they purchase Williamson is actually the supply house they purchase it from.....a warranty issue can be a nightmare.....im referring to what i see in my area Brooklyn, Queens Staten island etc....in a nutshell, same boiler less expensive i think.....use a reliable and competent installer that will do the right thing then youll have no worries.....where are you located and do you have pics of the installation? I personally think your installer wanted to save $X,XXX.XX on the installation and purchased the Williamson.....they shouldve gave you the boiler that you were quoted

STEAM DOCTOR

Williamson and WM are the same boiler, as far as I know. The Williamson block has Weil Mclain stamped on it. I think that the only difference is the jacket and the price.

KC_Jones

Here's an interesting question for the pros about this. If you quoted a WM and then installed a Williamson that was X amount cheaper to you, would you pass that savings onto the client? Just kind of curious how the contractor handled this with the OP. I would think the customer should have had this saving passed onto them?

Paul S_3

He shouldve its significantly less expensive.....especially since he said in the quotation Weil Mclain....then at the installation brought a Williamson.....bad business

MikeB001

Thanks for all of the feedback so far. I am located in Western Pennsylvania. here are some pictures of the install. It seems correct based on what I've read. Just not sure if it was skimmed and there is no valve there.

Paul S_3

No skim tapping installed....its piped to the MINIMUM requirements of the manufactire

MikeB001

You mentioned it was piped to the min requirements. What are the other options / enhanced piping? That could have been done other than the skim tapping?

Paul S_3

Drop header......or just use 2 full size risers to a standard header.....this is too slow steam velocity leaving boiler

KC_Jones

Definitely didn't skim it as was stated. I don't like the long horizontal runs on the return piping because it has no provision to flush it out. I can tell you for certain it will accumulate crud in that pipe. This was the first leak I had on my original boiler so I have seen it first hand.

I'm not convinced it's to minimum spec. The layout may be, but I can't tell the pipe size. The riser and header out of that boiler are supposed to be 2 1/2" minimum, that kind of looks like 2", but the OP would have to measure it. Measure the diameter of that pipe, if it measures 2 3/8" it's 2" pipe and it's wrong.

The massive height on the riser will probably help with the minimum piping, but if the size is wrong it's still wrong no matter what.

MikeB001

Thanks Paul. The drop or 2 risers would produce dryer steam and result in better efficiency?

Koan

@Paul S That is beautiful work!

Paul S_3

Yes @MikeB001 .....thanks @Koan .....and @KC_Jones is correct

MikeB001

Thanks; the riser and header are 2 1/2 inch pipe. So I have met min, I think. I will have them add valve and skim it and I will be commenting on the lack of a valve on the return as well. I'm a bit disappointed as I thought I hired a very reputable contractor.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Your missing a cover on the boiler switch box and you really shouldn't be using romex on the boiler for wiring (sorry, but I am an electrician as well)

The piping looks pretty good compared to what we usually see (as long as the sizes are correct) and it should work fine even if it is "minimum standards" some here prefer to oversize.

as far as skimming they should have done that it will most likely not be an option that can be avoided.

valves or plugs/caps on the returns line for flushing are optional but nice to have

everything has a cost and labor and material to go with it. all in all looks like you got an ok job

Double D

I assume this is a 2 pipe system. That pressuretrol will not keep the pressure low enough. Is there a name on the radiator traps?

MikeB001

@Double D, this is a 2 pipe system. What are your thoughts on Honeywell pressuretrol? It was adjusted to keep pressure under 1.5 or 2, I think. Most if not all of the radiator traps appear to be original (1930) and are Dunham No 1A and support up to 15lbs. So far most of them appear to function fine.

Tinman

Here's my .02.

A contractor should never change the piece of equipment that was written into the contract without approval of the customer, either through a change order or a new contract. And if there's a price difference, that should be accounted for too.

ChrisJ

Stephen Minnich said:

Here's my .02.

A contractor should never change the piece of equipment that was written into the contract without approval of the customer, either through a change order or a new contract. And if there's a price difference, that should be accounted for too.

He didn't follow the contract he agreed to, whether the boiler is the same or not. Correct?

In the eyes of the law the boilers are technically different, no?

MikeB001

@Steven Minnich and ChrisJ. I agree with you both....and I'm not happy this happened. I'm still thinking about how I plan to settle up with my contractor.

Tinman

I'm guessing it will just take a simple conversation between the two of you?

ChrisJ

Stephen Minnich said:

I'm guessing it will just take a simple conversation between the two of you?

I understand we're not supposed to discuss pricing, but can anyone tell the Op the general percentage difference between WM and an identical Williamson?

Right now they're kind of blind in my opinion.

Tinman

@ChrisJ - It doesn't matter if its $30 or $300 less. The OP can easily find that out if he's so inclined. He should have been told before the boiler was delivered to the job.

Abracadabra

ChrisJ said:

Stephen Minnich said:

I'm guessing it will just take a simple conversation between the two of you?

I understand we're not supposed to discuss pricing, but can anyone tell the Op the general percentage difference between WM and an identical Williamson?

Right now they're kind of blind in my opinion.

Just off the top of my head I'd say the Williamson is about 20% less than the WM

Double D

@MikeB001 The Dunham return system operates at 8oz. Or less. You should be using a vaporstat to control the pressure in the boiler, a Pressuretrol will not keep the pressure low enough for that system. I also don't see a vent on your air trap (behind the boiler, to the left of the window.) Try posting a close up of that float/air trap.

Double D

Here is the vaporstat you want to use.
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-L408J1009-Vaporstat-Controller-Steam-0-to-16-oz-in2
Main vent.
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Gorton-G2-Gorton-No-2-Straight-Air-Eliminator-3524000-p

BobC

i have never been bothered by the inaccuracy of vaporstats AS LONG AS THEY COULD TRIP IN THE RANGE I NEED. If it is set to 4oz and trips at 7 oz who cares as I can dial it down to trip where i want it to.

That is why I have a low pressure gauge next to the vaporstat.

Bob

MikeB001

@Double D
Here is a close up picture of what is used as the main vent (per my contractor it was left as is..no need to replace with a main vent). I never got a good answer as to what this is and if it should be replaced with something else. Does this mean I have a vapor steam system? If I leave as is...will the boiler be running too long and wasting fuel?

Fred

Looks like it has a vent holes on the top of it. Is that enough?

SWEI

The famous Dunham ham!

Double D

You do have a vapor system. I remember @Steamhead saying the original vents are too small. Can you post a picture of the top cover? You're going to need to drop the pressure below the minimum pressure that pressuretrol will do or yes, you will be wasting fuel.

MikeB001

@Double D Here is a pic of the top cover. What do you think?

MikeB001

@Double D
Here is the top cover. What do you think?

Double D

The threads on that old vent should be 1/2". A Gorton 2 will work in its place. I would say not enough venting with what's there.