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DUNKIRK DWB SERIES CCB-150 GAS-FIRED, non condensing boiler for 1000sq/f condo, chimney vented

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giorgi1969
giorgi1969 Member Posts: 10
edited November 2016 in THE MAIN WALL
Want to install quality stuff. Any advice ....I wonder about longevity. if anyone has a Utica combi please post your experience

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  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,379
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    150 btus per sq. ft. to heat a condo?? Seriously?

    You probably need less than 20 btus per sq. ft.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • giorgi1969
    giorgi1969 Member Posts: 10
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    Any advice, which one? I'm looking for non condensing combi boiler, chimney vented
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,443
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    I installed a Utica CuB a couple years back. It was ok. Nothing to go crazy over. Some of the parts inside are plastic threaded and that turned me off.
  • giorgi1969
    giorgi1969 Member Posts: 10
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    Thanks,.....Do I have better option. Can you advice any other solution?
  • John Mills_5
    John Mills_5 Member Posts: 952
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    I have a 1000 sq ft house, 60K 2 stage furnace with high fire turned off. Few years ago at -15 out, 36K heated the joint. DO A LOAD CALC!!!!!
    SWEISolid_Fuel_Man
  • giorgi1969
    giorgi1969 Member Posts: 10
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    What about hot water?
  • Jason_13
    Jason_13 Member Posts: 304
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    Burnham Series 2 goes down to about 30K
  • Brewbeer
    Brewbeer Member Posts: 616
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    Do you want one appliance for both heat and hot water? Seems like any boiler large enough for on demand hot water will be way too big for heat. Do you have a separate water heater / indirect?
    Hydronics inspired homeowner with self-designed high efficiency low temperature baseboard system and professionally installed mod-con boiler with indirect DHW. My system design thread: http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/154385
    System Photo: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/79/451e1f19a1e5b345e0951fbe1ff6ca.jpg
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,443
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    What are you venting options? What do you have for space?
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,579
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    Combi boilers in general are a significant compromise.

    To heat water on demand with no storage buffer requires a significant boiler.

    You probably need the 150,000 BTU/hr unit to heat water on demand.

    On the other hand your heating load on the coldest day is likely around 20,000 BTU/hr. On the average day it could be more like 10,000 BTU/hr.

    The boiler you are looking at will only modulate down to 50,000 BTU/hr input for heating. That makes it approx 2.5x too big for the coldest day of the year. Probably 5x too big on average.
    A good analogy for oversizing boilers would be driving a dump truck to you office job instead of a Prius. The dump truck will get you there, just not very efficiently.

    A solution to these lopsided loads is to size the boiler as close as you can to the heating load then install an indirect water tank to serve the domestic load. The domestic tank provides some storage buffer so you don't need so much firepower to heat the hot water.


    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    SWEISolid_Fuel_Man
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
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    Zman said

    "the heating load then install an indirect water tank to serve the domestic load. The domestic tank provides some storage buffer so you don't need so much firepower to heat the hot water."

    Bingo!

    Smallest boiler you can find will still be too big, but short cycling will be 1/3 as much as it could/would have been, and short cycling is a GREAT way to kill a boiler in a hurry. Like 2 to 3 years...

    ME

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • giorgi1969
    giorgi1969 Member Posts: 10
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    I want both heat and hot water? Venting : air vent and 4 inch chimney pipe.
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,443
    edited November 2016
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    No outside walls in the room? How big is the room?
    Does anything else use that chimney?
    What is there now?
    More details would help us help you....
  • giorgi1969
    giorgi1969 Member Posts: 10
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    Yes. there is outside wall in Boiler room and small laundry. At present moment I have water heater 50 gal. I need to save space. Room has air vent and chimney. I do not see any othe option accept Dunkirk CCB- 150. I'm looking chimney vented non condensing boiler. I'm unable to find better choice. I do understood that technically to heat up the condo I do not need more than 30btu maybe 40btue, but that is not my concern . I would like to know reliability of CCB-150. This is condo, I can't make another vent and I can't use condensing boiler. Other choice I have to use non-condensing boiler and water tank(takes more space). Thanks for helping , I do appreciate .

  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,443
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    Why cant you use a condensing boiler?
    UNLESS the @$%! the Condo association wont let you put a hole in the wall....
    My choice would be a IBC DC 20-125. Plenty of hot water and it does modulate down. Not a perfect set up but it is better than the CuB.
  • giorgi1969
    giorgi1969 Member Posts: 10
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    Condo association not let me put a hole in the wall......Better than the CUB.............but I can't use. Not chimney vented and condensing boiler. Thanks for trying.
  • Brewbeer
    Brewbeer Member Posts: 616
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    Consider installing a small atmospheric boiler with an indirect tank for hot water. Probably a better option than a grossly oversized combi.
    Hydronics inspired homeowner with self-designed high efficiency low temperature baseboard system and professionally installed mod-con boiler with indirect DHW. My system design thread: http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/154385
    System Photo: https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/79/451e1f19a1e5b345e0951fbe1ff6ca.jpg
    ZmankcoppLeon82
  • gschallert
    gschallert Member Posts: 170
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    If nothing else is using the chimney (fireplace, wood stove etc) can't you vent a mod-con combi up through it, using it as a chase? My in-laws quote was for a Viessmann venting that way.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
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    Yes, as long as the existing flue is not used you can run pretty much anything you want through it (but not all combinations of things, e.g. no mixing of Category 1 and 4.)
  • gschallert
    gschallert Member Posts: 170
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    So maybe he has more options than he thinks with a mod-con that can be sized closer to heat load. Whatever that actually is. @giorgi1969 what is your hot water demand?
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,443
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    I just did a condo recently that had the same PIA restrictions. I ended up w/ a Weil/ Mclain CGa 25 nat vent boiler a Superstor Pro 30 gallon. indirect. This is prob your best bet.
    The other problem w/ the Utica/ Dunkirk combi is that at 150 input you prob do not have enough room for combustion air in the condo. You have already said that you cant add a vent intake to the outside. The 1 grille in the utility room will certainly not be enough for 150K..
    Ironman
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,709
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    didn't I see on TOH that a condensor was properly vented all the way up an existing chimney to a special cap, and the remainder of the flue was the oa intake?
    there was an adapter at the breeching ,
    known to beat dead horses
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,443
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    Yes... Some how we are not getting the whole picture. Info is coming in dribs and drabs...
  • gschallert
    gschallert Member Posts: 170
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    neilc said:

    didn't I see on TOH that a condensor was properly vented all the way up an existing chimney to a special cap, and the remainder of the flue was the oa intake?
    there was an adapter at the breeching ,

    Can somebody translate this for me? I don't know what TOH means
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,443
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    TOH... This Old House... on PBS.
  • gschallert
    gschallert Member Posts: 170
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    ah ok thanks. I should have known that since I've watched it off and on for a few decades. but yeah, what I discovered while researching viessmann made me think condensing boilers have much more flexible venting & intake options than they used to. I read about something called concentric? piping and split hybrid and room dependent intake. There seem to be so many options now.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
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    Concentric vents have been around forever. UMC prohibits use of the chimney as a fresh air conveyor for Cat 4 (not entirely certain why) but if a manufacturer gets a system approval it can fly.
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,188
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    Giorgi1969

    If I were you I would definitely consider an Energy Kinetics EK1 stackable boiler. The hot water storage tank is under the boiler. I have worked on plenty of these boilers both oil and gas. You could save quite a bit of oil over other chimney vented boilers and it's very quiet. Check it out.
  • giorgi1969
    giorgi1969 Member Posts: 10
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    Energy Kinetic EK1 stackable would good fit. SORRY NOT SUITABLE FOR MY INSTALLATION VENT 4" OFF BOILER BUT REQUIRED CHIMNEY NEEDS TO BE 5" I SPOKE TO FACTORY NOT SUGGESTED FOR MY INSTALLATION ..... So far Dunkirk cub 150 the only the choice which suitable for my project. Venting 4X6 and chimney 4 inch.....
  • MannyLopes
    MannyLopes Member Posts: 4
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    ANY ONE FAMILIAR WITH THE CCB-150? does not
    ignites when I open hot water faucet
  • nicholas bonham-carter
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    Manny-start a new thread for this to get the most advice.
    Download the owner’s manual, and it may have a diagnostic check-list.—NBC
    Ironman
  • MannyLopes
    MannyLopes Member Posts: 4
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    there nothing in the manual that can tell me an idea of the issue, when I unplug and plug back the boiler goes thru all the checks and starts up for a few seconds, if I open the hot water while the ignition is on, then I have hot water as needed the boiler firing goes thru different stages as the water reaches the maxim temp then if I shut off the hot water, then turn it on again, it will not turn on and the screen keeps a high water temperature number like 149, even though the water is running cold