Air Valve Humidification

jvanber

Greetings, everyone. I've been a lurker on this board for quite some time, and I want to thank you all in advance for all the information you share. For the past year and a half, I haven't had to pose any questions, as nearly everything I've needed to learn has been posted on the forum.

So, a little back-story. I've been renovating a 103 year old historic home for about a year and a half. Took the house down to studs, and it was in exceedingly bad shape when I started. I decided to keep the Steam system, as surprisingly, the house still had all of its radiators. I recall very distinctly, my father, saying in his most fatherly tone of remembrance "The only house we ever lived in that you kids didn't get sick was a house with STEAM heat. I love steam heat." And so my fate was sealed, because how can I ignore Dad-facts like that.

I replaced the boiler with a 150K unit (whatever generic brand that Carrier is pedaling; it works well), and also replaced some black-pipe and ran some new black pipe due to construction changes in the home's layout.

This Fall, I replaced all the brass valves and fittings with new brass, as they all needed to be re-packed (and, as I found out, it's nearly impossible to get a valve off of black-pipe when it's been on there for over a hundred years without totally garfing up the valve. Heck, I actually felt like I scored a game-winning touchdown each time I actually managed to get one those old valves off, period). So, new fittings it is. I also, stupidly, decided to haul every one of my eleven radiators outside, pressure-wash the nastiness off of them, blow them out with air, and give them nice and fancy coats of new spray paint. Then I had to, unfortunately, bring them back IN the house, and back UP the stairs. Needless to say, that won't happen again for another 100 years. And, my buddies basically don't answer their phones when I call them, anymore.

I've combined this system with a fancy new Ecobee thermostat, and I'm really thrilled with it, so far. I also foam-insulated the entire structure, so it's pretty tight to begin with, but it holds its heat really well. It's still a bit early for me to fully start tweaking the air-vents to balance the system, but I do love the way the Ecobee will maintain the temperature using the bedroom sensor on it's "nighttime" setting, and ignore the temperature on the thermostat downstairs. Seems to save a LOT of guesswork.

So, here's my next challenge: Humidification. From what I've read, people seem to add other systems, humidifiers, or dangly goofy contraptions off of their radiators to humidify their steam-heated home. This kind of drives me nuts, since there is an abundance of steam moisture inside the system itself. I came across this really old Popular Science article from the 1930's, where it looks like someone invented an air-valve that releases about a liter of steam every hour. I think this is genius, but I haven't been able to find anything like them. Does anyone know if something like this still exists? Would seem to be a great addition to a Living Room and Master Bedroom's radiators.

If not, any other ideas to keep the winter nose-bleeds at bay?

Thanks in advance, and thanks for all of your information.

-Joshua Van Berkum

ratio

You really don't want to be losing steam out of your heating system. Or rather, you really don't want to be adding water to your steam heating system. New water brings in minerals & gassed dissolved in the water. The minerals drop out & turn into gunk & concrete inside the boiler. The oxygen turns into gunk & rust inside the boiler.

jvanber

Thanks for the feedback, Ratio.

That's interesting. My service company told me I should plan on draining my boiler and return lines every month during use, which I do.

Ratio, do you have a solution for humidity?

SWEI

jvanber said:

My service company told me I should plan on draining my boiler and return lines every month during use, which I do.

If you are draining the entire contents of the boiler every month, you are contributing to an early demise for your boiler. You may need to drain the LWCO every month, depending on what type it is. Can you post a photo of the boiler and associated piping? Do yourself a favor and buy a copy of this, BTW.

ratio

Flushing adds water, which contributes to gunk. Gunk requires flushing. It's a viscous circle. I'll admit to not having to deal with that particular problem, as my (institutional) boiler has a chem feed system, to try and keep the underground condensate lines from rotting any more than they already have.

Regarding humidification, if you have an air handler for A/C, a bypass humidifier might serve. If not, a steam humidifier might be appropriate, depending. And there's always a skillet of water on the radiator.

KC_Jones

jvanber said:

Thanks for the feedback, Ratio.

That's interesting. My service company told me I should plan on draining my boiler and return lines every month during use, which I do.

Ratio, do you have a solution for humidity?

Your service company knows nothing about steam. This isn't the worst idea ever, but it's in the running.

Stand alone humidifiers can work wonders. @ChrisJ uses one.

ChrisJ

Yes,

I have an older version of this, and chose it after owning many others because of how easy it is to keep clean. Cleaning is extremely important with any humidifier.

You'll need a pack of four new wicks at least once a season, sometimes I go through two sets, depending.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/AIRCARE-5-Gal-Evaporative-Humidifier-for-4-000-sq-ft-HD1409/204364015


https://www.amazon.com/HD1409-Whole-House-Console-Style-Evaporative-Humidifier/dp/B00KVN8CLA


Don't be fooled by it's "4000SQFT" rating. It barely does my old drafty 1600sqft house when it's really cold out (single digits or below zero) and it's very loud on it's high setting.

Low does the job most of the winter nicely and is very quiet. Medium is reasonably loud and I use it on colder nights.

It uses HDC12 wicks which usually go for about $20 +-.

https://www.amazon.com/AIRCARE-HDC12-Replacement-Wicking-Humidifier/dp/B000VGX4TM/ref=pd_sim_201_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=VA248RQMSSDC2KTG29K5

It has two 2.5 gallon or 3 gallon bottles you fill at your sink or bathtub. Mine rests nicely on the rib between the two kitchen sink basins. Once in awhile I'll dump a humidifier antibacterial treatment in it but not every filling.

SWEI

If you fill them with RO water and add a touch of peroxide to each fill, the wicks last for years.

gerry gill

you need a new service company.

ChrisJ

SWEI said:

If you fill them with RO water and add a touch of peroxide to each fill, the wicks last for years.

I suppose even better would be distilled water.
But I go through 12 gallons a day often, forget that.

ratio

Huh. I forgot all about the stand-alone humidifiers. We even had one when I was a pup, a big old console thingy, it must've held about 5 gallons of water. A motorized pad-belt, probably two feet wide. That brings back memories...

ChicagoCooperator

This Old House has installed a steam generator either into a forced air/ducted system or with a "port" somewhere in a hot water or steam heated house. It just dumped steam, like one of those clothes steamers. If you've tightened your house up you may not need a lot.

Dave0176

The Carrier branded boiler is a rebranded Dunkirk. Post some pics of your piping near the boiler. Dunkirk boilers with their side steam outlets are very sensitive to piping. If not piped properly you will most definitely get wet steam.

Steamhead

ECR only sells that boiler directly under the Dunkirk name. Utica boilers are entirely different but still ECR. The rest of those names are re-brandings of Dunkirks.

jvanber

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

The home I renovated hadn't had a working boiler system for years -- we think for at least 7, although we determined that most of the piping was good. In lieu of the rust build-up, my service firm recommended I keep draining it until I get a lot of that rust and debris out of the system; it's gotten much better, as my air vents haven't gotten clogged up this season like they did all the time last year.

I'll look into one of those whole-house humidifiers. Wish they had a nipple for automatic fill.

Thanks, guys.

-Joshua

jvanber

Oh, and it's an ECR PSB-5D. I really went with a "carrier" for when I sell the place. People still associate the name, and that's fine by me.