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GV90+4 Installation

Walt_10
Walt_10 Member Posts: 13
I am replacing a discontinued Weil Mclain VHE, Series 3 boiler, 100,000 BTU. It is a LP-fueled, 2-zone residential baseboard hot water system. My plan is to leave the existing loops in place and replace the VHE with the GV90+4 boiler, 84,000 BTU. I would have a professional install the unit, but for whatever reason, all 4 contractors I have contacted for quotes on the boiler w/installation have been unresponsive. My contingency is to understand the installation, in case I have to order the GV90+ on line and do it myself. My question relates to information from the GV90 manual I accessed online. The supply to the system looks to be a stainless steel tube, 1". The manual legend indicates 1" NPT, but the photo appears to show an un-threaded stainless tube. Does anyone have experience with this boiler and what fixture that would connect the boiler output to the system? I want to ensure no special tools, such as those required for some solderless connectors are needed for the GV90 boiler. Thanks in advance for information.


Comments

  • Paul S_3
    Paul S_3 Member Posts: 1,257
    edited October 2016
    any professional hydronic heating contractor can install any boiler.....without a problem .....Where are you located.??....di you use the find a contractor feature on this site?....also boiler must be properly sized to heat loss of home for the max firing rate and the minimum firing rate...Do you do have copper fin tube baseboard? if you do... without adding extra baseboard your high efficieny boiler will operate at the rated efficiency of a standard boiler.....if you read the AFUE rating it says UP to 90%....also boiler can be connected in any sort of way soldered threaded or propress
    ASM Mechanical Company
    Located in Staten Island NY
    Servicing all 5 boroughs of NYC.
    347-692-4777
    [email protected]
    ASMHVACNYC.COM
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/asm-mechanical-company
  • Walt_10
    Walt_10 Member Posts: 13
    FYI - I've attached a photo of current VHE system and proposed GV90+ boiler photo.
    http://www.weil-mclain.com/products/gv90-gas-boiler
    Paul S_3
  • Walt_10
    Walt_10 Member Posts: 13
    Thanks for the reply, Paul. I just found this site this morning, so no contact with contractors featured. I am in West Virginia, Elkins Area, which is about 3 hours south of Pittsburgh, PA. It is a copper-fin baseboard configuration. I am not set up for solderless connection for the 1" supply unless it is something like the SharkBite system that only required the tubing edge be chamferred. I can purchase that tool. I will have to investigate whether the stainless can be connected to copper with the SharkBite. I have attempted for 3 weeks to get a contractor interested to return my call, but no luck so far. I would prefer that route, but if necessary, as me and the family get closer to winter, I will have no choice but to attempt that installation. My current VHE is not working. It is a HSI-system; the LP ignites, fires for about 3 seconds and quits. On that system, I have cleaned the system, made sure connections are secure, changed the pressure switch (also called differential or vacuum switch around here), checked the igniter, and now am waiting for a new Norton 271M igniter to arrive; the VHE is discontinued, so the control module is unavailable (calls for discontinued Fenwal 05-212226-1003); Weil Mclain gave me a conversion module that costs $529 at SupplyHouse.com; rather than that, which I would also have to install since no response from calls made to local HVAC contractors, I decided to remove and replace with the GV90+4.
  • Paul S_3
    Paul S_3 Member Posts: 1,257
    i think @Dan Foley foley mechanical is out there
    ASM Mechanical Company
    Located in Staten Island NY
    Servicing all 5 boroughs of NYC.
    347-692-4777
    [email protected]
    ASMHVACNYC.COM
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/asm-mechanical-company
  • Walt_10
    Walt_10 Member Posts: 13
    The conversion kit part number for the VHE control module is 382-200-451, which comes up as Conversion Kit to Gold Control HSI, SKU:382-200-451, Brand: Weil Mclain on SupplyHouse.com. number. The price is $519, which my thought is too much for a discontinued 30 year old boiler; maybe not, but not sure of the installation difficulty of that process.
  • Walt_10
    Walt_10 Member Posts: 13
    Thanks. I looked up that individual and he appears to be in the Virginia and Wash. D.C. area.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,750
    edited October 2016
    You say you have checked the igniter, How did you do that?
    These HSI are also your flame sensor....(many are, some have separate flame sensor).

    The HSI has 2 jobs, 1st is to get red hot for ignition, that is easy to do and check out.....it either glows or not.
    Then the gas valve opens, fire lights, and the HSI becomes your flame sensor, (this is a more sophisticated job and it may have lost that ability with age).
    The gas valve would remain open for those 3 seconds you speak of, the HSI flame sensor has fallen down on the job and is unable to send its signal and the module does its job of closing the gas valve.

    The HSI flame sensor is an electric sensing circuit that need 2 paths of current flow. One path is the 2 HSI power wires and the other path is a grounding method. There may be a actual wire from the burner back to the module or it may depend upon the chassis of the boiler, (just like a car electric system).
    It is critical for that sensing circuit to be good electrical path.

    On anything of this age I would always exercise all push on terminals by simply disconnecting and reconnecting. This cuts a new path and removes any corrosion.

    Change the igniter, check all electrical connections and let us know.

    BTY The new boiler you are considering might require a different chimney than what you are now using.
  • FranklinD
    FranklinD Member Posts: 399
    I nursed a sick and dying VHE through three subzero winters in our new house before I replaced it. It had a similar issue. It would ignite the pilot burner and then just sit there for 30 seconds or so (I don't recall exactly) then shut off, wait a minute or two, then do it again.

    What it ended up being on mine was the mercury pilot switch (name?). It plugs into the bottom of the gas valve...apparently was a source of issues. Maybe yours is a later revision as mine was installed in 1983.

    Anyway, I went to a local plumbing and heating shop and they had aisle upon aisle of used and old but 'new in box' parts for tons of boilers and furnaces. I bought a used mercury pilot switch and a new igniter (since mine had a small black scorch on the back). Installed them both in 5 minutes and the thing ran perfectly for another season until I replaced it.

    Best of luck!
    Ford Master Technician, "Tinkerer of Terror"
    Police & Fire Equipment Lead Mechanic, NW WI
    Lover of Old Homes & Gravity Hot Water Systems
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,750
    Walt, how old is your boiler.

    I do believe you are lucky in not having the mercury switch and the boiler is new enough for HSI.
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,985
    The venting definitely needs help... That even has the old Plexco/ Hart&Cooley recalled venting, vent tee on there.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,868
    There are better options than the gv90. If you must go with a W/M, I'd at least look at the ECO with the fire tube heat exchanger.

    I'm near Staunton, VA. About 2 1/2 hrs.



    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    Zman
  • Walt_10
    Walt_10 Member Posts: 13
    I'm not sure of the exact date, since I just moved in in January, 2016. I believe it is around 1988. It is a VHS-4, Series 3. I attached a couple of additional photos to see if that can add to the discussion (gas valve and schematic). I do have the HSI igniter on order, since it does function as the flame sensor, in addition to LP ignition, which was very well explained by Jughne. I did check for igniter alignment above burner tube, and gave the igniter an inspection, plus used compressed air to remove any dust, both to no effect. I just checked again and the burner shuts down quickly, after less than 3 seconds. The igniter sometimes continues to glow and gas attempts flow within about a minute, but the last time I tried this did not occur; blower continued but no glow. As suggested I will remove and reseat all electrical connectors. There is only one ground I could find and that is connected to the one of two screws holding the ignition module in place. Do you think it is worth grounding directly to the boiler sheet metal housing? The venting is a mess; what you see now is after I removed all of the duct tape and sealed all gaps in vent, condenser/vent connection with silicone sealant. I really want to get a new boiler, but I'll keep trying at least until the new Norton 271M igniter arrives on Tuesday. I did look at the concentric vent kit for the GV90; it pulls air and vents from same 4" pipe.
  • Walt_10
    Walt_10 Member Posts: 13
    I did not do a resistance test on the igniter, but have a multimeter, so could do so if you think it would be useful; I believe the resistance spec for a new 271M is 45-75 ohms?
  • Walt_10
    Walt_10 Member Posts: 13
    Do you think I would have any luck with Weil Mclain honoring the recall on the vent T?
  • Walt_10
    Walt_10 Member Posts: 13
    What do folks think about the system supply 1" on the GV90; if it is threaded it would made for an easy connection; I can't tell from the picture; if not, I think it would make the connection to the existing supply loops difficult, at least with the tools and knowledge I have.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 9,750
    IIWM I would check the new igniter with your ohmmeter, just so you know it is within that range.
    While installing it I would add a redundant ground wire from the mounting bracket to the ignition module "ground" terminal.
    The HSI operates on 120 VAC while operating as an igniter.
    You want no ground wire to touch those leads.
    You can ground anything on the boiler except for any wire connection that is insulated.

    Sometimes there is a ground connection on the burners, that may have been removed.

    You could PM Ironman also.
    As you have found out getting a good installer is your first step,
    then following his recommendations.

    In any event you should have a good working CO near that boiler, maybe a second one somewhere in the house.
  • Walt_10
    Walt_10 Member Posts: 13
    Sounds good; I'll test resistance and add a ground wire from igniter bracket to the module "ground" screw. I did reseat all connectors to no effect; but appreciate all of the comments; I'm game to try suggestions. I also appreciate Ironman's input on the WM Eco. My only connection to WM is that I've only had experience with the current VHE and previously a Gold GV; I just don't know any other manufacturers other than the big advertisers like Lennox.
  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997
    The GV90 supply and return have threaded connections..with that said the boiler must be piped primary secondary unless you meet very specific requirements..which from your picture you do not...do yourself a favor and keep looking for an installer..we are all busy right now but it's your best bet...
  • Walt_10
    Walt_10 Member Posts: 13
    Copy. Thanks for the assessment and comment. I'm waiting for responses from local HVAC; I suspect I will not be able to be too particular noting that my current VHE system is down (but hope the igniter I ordered will bring it back until new system is in). I will read up on primary-secondary distribution, so I can know a little to communicate with the technician, that is if I get one.
  • Walt_10
    Walt_10 Member Posts: 13
    I checked out the contractor listing on HeatingHelp and no one listed within 100 miles of my location...interesting.
  • Walt_10
    Walt_10 Member Posts: 13
    I added ground from burner housing to earth ground (through electric branch circuit; same result - blower, then igniter glow, gas valve opens, ignition, burns for 3 seconds, then shuts down. The igniter should arrive on Tuesday...hoping that will work.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 6,868
    I sent you a p/m.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.