Looking for good advice on sweating copper (newbie here)

warno

I got alittle bit more ran this morning. Then ran out of elbows. It's crazy how quick you go through fittings.

hot_rod

warno said:

They sure do sell those fittings but by putting the copper to stainless and so on I eliminate one or 2 thread fittings each time. Like I've mentioned before around here I hate thread fittings. The fewer I have to happier I am. I've had too many occasions where I thought "yep that's tight enough" and don't put a union or some other break point and I have a leak, resulting in me tearing half of everything back apart to reset.





I was told to go from copper to cast iron you need a brass nipple into the cast piece to avoid electrolysis and getting a leak at the thread. Don't know how true it was I didn't want to chance it.



And yeah, I like fire and burning stuff and melting things too. Lol

Pretty much all hydronic components are available as sweat versions, and many in press. Balance valves are one exception, as they often go into coil kits with flex hoses.

Urban myth on the copper to cast in a sealed loop application, but you have a nice work around.

warno

Well, good to know I didn't have anything to worry about. I guess then it saved me the money on the added fitting into the cast because I made the bimetal sweat at work from scraps.

I'll keep that in mind for future reference. Thank you.

SWEI

Bead blasting?

warno

Yeah I cleaned them in the cabinet blaster at work. Seemed easier then buffing them off with the wire wheel.

GW

Just spread the heat, I see too many novices cooking one spot.

And when you are done let this solder set and then wipe the flux within a minute or so, some guys don't wipe the flux off and it looks semi Lame down the road. You gotta squeeze to get the flux off not just a gentle wipng

Good luck!

ChrisJ

Also, after cleaning the flux off be sure to clear coat the pipes so they don't tarnish. Right @KC_Jones ?

Just kidding, I don't do that, but I think KC did.

KC_Jones

I don't clear coat, but the copper does get polished every year. I like shiny things.

warno

I've never thought to Polish plumbing pipes. Lol

KC_Jones

I don't polish the plumbing pipes, they are my boiler pipes. If it can be polished I polish it. This is my latest polishing project. For reference that started out as all rough casting.

ChrisJ

Your boiler pipes are considered "plumbing" no?

KC_Jones

Just wanted to be specific that it isn't all my plumbing pipes, just the pipes on the boiler.

bob_46

waste vent and potable water is plumbing ,boilers are fitters work

ChrisJ

bob said:

waste vent and potable water is plumbing ,boilers are fitters work

Ok,

warno

I like the last definition of "plumbing" lol

But serious you Polish your boiler pipes too? You have a pic of said pipes?

bob_46

Chris, plumbers that do boilers are wannabe pipe fitters .

pecmsg

http://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Expert-Advice.aspx

warno

I pretty much have everything fit up that I can until I get more elbows early this week. So I started sweating everything up. I have the garage loop done so I went ahead and air tested it. I had one leak, and guess what it was, a stupid threaded fitting. I left the air charge in it to see if it drops any. In the hour I was out there it stayed up after I fixed the leak. The boss showed up in his car but didn't get out to inspect anything. Phew!

hot_rod

If the piping is that pretty, the rest should be also. May I suggest.

warno

That's a sexy mechanical room. I do have a sheet of diamond plate laying up against the opposite wall that could almost cover it all like that.

KC_Jones

Don't shoot me for posting this, but even some electricians like it pretty. Found this many years ago on an electrical forum.

warno

Dear lord, when you have that much wire to run I would hope the guy makes it pretty. I would hate to see that much wire (miles?) ran and just thrown up somewhere.


Thread jack is fine but I have another sweat question...

Apparently I got alittle carried away on one of my valves (last one, go figure) and its leaking past the seal now. I tried tightening the pack nut but it's still leaking slow past. Anything I can do with this?

warno

Anyone help me on my last question? Is there anything to do with a sweat on valve that's leaking past is seal?

ChrisJ

warno said:

Anyone help me on my last question? Is there anything to do with a sweat on valve that's leaking past is seal?

Did you sweat it with the valve half on, half off and then let it totally cool before touching it?

As far as I know, there's nothing you can do, at least I haven't found it yet.

warno

Yeah. It's a webstone propal valve if that matters. I put the valve handle at half turn then took the handle off to avoid hitting it. I waited for it to be cool to the touch before turning the ball again.

hot_rod

Are you talking about a leak around the stem packing? If tightening the nut doesn't stop it, sometimes you can remove the nut, wrap some teflon tape around the stem and reassemble. basically adding a new packing. Simple enough to try before you replace the valve.

warno

It's leaking past the ball inside. The seal that seal the ball to the valve body. I'm guessing the stem seal but doesn't do anything for the seals inside the body?

hot_rod

You cooked the teflon seat out, probably.

It still should not leak out the stem packing even with a damaged ball seal, unless you melted both seals.

Sounds like you got it way too hot.
What type of torch are you using. A brazing torch with oxy actylene is not ideal for soft, low temperature soldering.

warno

I was using MAPP gas with the tip that came on the torch. I just bought it from menards for this project.

It's not a bad leak. When I tested the line with air I could hear it faintly hissing back into my empty tanks as it was losing pressure.

ChrisJ

warno said:

I was using MAPP gas with the tip that came on the torch. I just bought it from menards for this project.



It's not a bad leak. When I tested the line with air I could hear it faintly hissing back into my empty tanks as it was losing pressure.

There's a chance it won't leak with water, or when warm.

hot_rod

Maybe it's not critical you have 100% shut off? When or how was the valve intended to be used? If it is for purging isolation, a small leak by may not be a big deal.

Once that ring inside is distorted by over-heating, assuming that is what happened, I doubt it will self correct.

If the seal inside is way distorted sometimes the sharp edge of the ball opening and closing grabs on and makes the seal worse, or rips a chunk out.

warno

It's this valve in the attachment. Its to isolate for air purge and pump replacement, if needed. It's leaking on the "tank" side of the valve body.

hot_rod

If you want or desire it to do the job it was intended to do, 100% shutoff for future service ability, I suggest you replace it.

warno

Ok. That's what I assumed would be the only option.

Danny Scully

Any chance you used a little too much solder and its caught in the valve? Try and force it through the purge.

warno

I don't think its solder and I only say because the valve turns smoothly without any catches. I've blown air through as best I can to try clearing any potential debris.