Steam Repipe

Danny Scully

I got a chance to work in a home built in the 1800s, likely with not heat. The basement is made up of a series of rounded rooms which originally stored grains. Today, the boiler was repiped, Vaporstat added, skim tapping added and boiler skimmed, cross over steam piping eliminated, and main venting added. Here is what we had to work with. The first 3 pictures are of the existing near boiler piping, while the last picture is of the above the waterline cross over piping.

Danny Scully

Here is what we completed. The first picture is the newly installed main vent. The next 3 pictures are the new near boiler piping. The last picture is the newly below the waterline return piping.

Danny Scully

No love wallies? I'll have @steamhead post for me from now on

EzzyT

What size boiler is that? Is that a 2" header? No bypass piping on the auto feeder?

Danny Scully

Boiler is an IN5, yes it's a 2" drop header with use of both risers. Existing feeder is without bypass. Bypass will be proposed for 2nd phase of work.

vaporvac

I think everyone will love it. It just took my computer a long time to bring up the pics.

Charlie from wmass

This is the first day I've really been on the wall much. Been trying to play catch-up since the baby was born. I need to teach you guys about the trombone header.

Canucker

I like the look of it, but I have a question. What is the reasoning for the one riser to go over the other to the header? I'm not an installer or very familiar with steam, other than what I read on here, so it may be plainly obvious to someone experienced and I'm just not seeing it. It looks 1000% better than the before pics, for sure.

Charlie from wmass

Like this

Charlie from wmass

The home owners will be thrilled in how well the boiler now works for them

Charlie from wmass

@Canucker you need to make sure that your two risers join together before you split to the feeds for the system.

Canucker

Charlie from wmass said:

@Canucker you need to make sure that your two risers join together before you split to the feeds for the system.

I see that, I was just wondering why the in the one pic, the riser on the left goes around to connect to the farthest point on the right of the header, while the right one connects to a tee almost directly in front of it? @Charlie from wmass @Danny Scully
I'm not questioning it, just curious about it. From the looks of the pics that was the most efficient way to connect to the system feeds instead of moving that piping?

Charlie from wmass

That was @Danny Scully s call. I know why it was done. I only question peoples work if it is a matter of function or safety I see. Everything else is dealers choice.

EzzyT

2" header is kinda to small for a boiler that size. Every steam boiler I repipe or install has at least a 3" header.

Canucker

Thanks @Charlie from wmass I don't have much of a knowledge base to draw from when it comes to this, so it was different enough for me to notice and wonder why. In my line of work there are a lot of people who know how to do things but they don't know why they have to do them that way. So if a new scenario arises, they can't figure out which solution to use. That leads to a bunch of set ups that work, but man, there was an easier way to get there, if you know why things are done.

SWEI

Charlie from wmass said:

I need to teach you guys about the trombone header.

I suppose that might make this a French Horn Header.

Danny Scully

@ezzyt and @Hatterasguy, for that matter, I should have made it 8"...I'm well aware of the positive effects of an upsized header. I'm also aware of my customers budget constraints. Let's not speak as though I didn't pipe this boiler above manufacturers specifications...

Charlie from wmass

Careful what you ask for on heatinghelp. In the photo I have above I used to two and a half inch risers going into a 3-inch header. The boiler is a Weil Mclain PEG 5

Danny Scully

@Charlie from wmass I would never suggest that's overkill, what I'm suggesting is that "kinda to small" is not accurate, and an opinion, which we're all entitled to. Proof is in the pudding as they say. System heated completely on 8oz of pressure within 15 minutes.

Charlie from wmass

Doesn't anybody use two and a half inch pipe anymore? Then why does everybody jump up to 3-inch automatically? There are three legs to the stool. One leg is function the other leg is efficiency and the third leg is cost as contractors we need to be fair to our customers and consider what's going to make the best stool for them.

Danny Scully

@Hatterasguy, you can also pipe an IN6 with one riser, and not use a drop header...I won't post anything under 3" from now on

Charlie from wmass

@Danny Scully it is your customer and your call. My customer wanted me to drive 80 miles to install their boiler. People who call me from that far away tend to want above and beyond. The crazy thing about steam is we have all walked into systems that were piped really bad and still worked.
If a photo of an installation is posted on heatinghelp it will be dissected under a microscope.

Danny Scully

I know @Charlie from wmass, I've been a member as long as you. I don't mind, it's all welcome. I enjoy the back and forth with professionals.

Charlie from wmass

I enjoy the back and forth with the amateurs just as much. They are often the biggest zealots but they'll hold you honest

Danny Scully

Lol

Charlie from wmass

@Danny Scully I have been here one year 2 months longer, but who's counting. Lol

Danny Scully

Ha! I was waiting for that. I've been here long enough to remember when you didn't live by the drop header @Charlie from wmass

Charlie from wmass

I'll tell you a secret I still don't

Danny Scully

lol, as you've said, if you follow the diagram with the boiler and meet their heights, you should be fine.

Charlie from wmass

Installing a drop header in a 7 foot or higher basement with a residential boiler connected to a parallel flow system is over kill. But I do try to use both risers and/or each a size up on the risers.

Canucker

@Danny Scully I wasn't questioning whether it was right or not, like I said, I don't have the knowledge base to draw from. I understand budget restraints put on you by a customer drives set up decisions. Trust me, I know enough about it to say you installed something that will perform well above the minimum. I just didn't want to assume that there wasn't a technical reason for it, that maybe it was something that you improved in the field based on your own install observations. It does look good though, cheers

Steamhead

Danny Scully said:

No love wallies? I'll have @steamhead post for me from now on

First time I've seen this, so I'll say: Nice work, Danny.

Danny Scully

@canucker, I'm sorry I never directly answered your question(s), @Charlie from wmass beat me to it . None of my responses were if reference to your inquiry, sorry again for any misunderstanding. Thanks for your interest. Thanks as well @Steamhead!

ChrisJ

Personally I would've wanted a 3" header and both risers as well if it was mine.

However, I'm also going to throw this up again.





Looks like a clean install to me.

Jason_13

The IN5 with a two inch header the velocity is 28 ft sec. This is fine

Danny Scully

@Hatterasguy, maybe change you name to hater? Lol, I appreciate your strong stance on the issue. I do, however, think it's a bad practice to suggest that going above and beyond manufacturers specifications "is not fine". Furthermore suggesting if you don't go above manufacturers specification, that that isn't fine? Again, I completely respect and admire your stance on this, I just think you need to consider a range of things when proposing a project to a potental customer, not just 6" drop header on and IN3 lol.

Charlie from wmass

Excessive materials is excessive. Also pipe being too large mean excessive air to vent. The two risers will slow the steam to allow seperation. To short sprint through the header will not magically add moister to the steam.

Danny Scully

At this point @Hatterasguy, I'd politely ask you to stop commenting, and, don't ever insult me again. Not only have I read all of Dan's books and attended his seminars, but I've had the great pleasure of speaking with him personally. Have a good night.

Steamhead

Hatterasguy said:

Apparently, you feel you can put up a boiler that has velocities that are excessive and you would like to receive kudos for that installation.

Frank and ChrisJ and Charlie think you did a wonderful job despite the excessive velocity.

I can tell you with certainty that 38 fps will result in wet steam as there is insufficient time in the header to drop water. BTW, it's not only my opinion. When you get a chance, there is fellow who wrote an interesting book entitled "Lost art of Steam Heating".

Read it.

If I see a nice workmanlike job that works well, I compliment it. Unfortunately, I rarely get to do this in the field since almost all the steamers I see out there are installed badly.

Would Gordon and I have done some of this install differently? Sure. But if the job works, that's what counts.

So again- nice work.

Charlie from wmass

Here is a wager, and I do not shirk on bets, if there are any problems with the system due to wet steam I will provide the material and labor to personally repipe it. If not @Hatterasguy agrees to only comment when the issue of a contractors installation is less than manufacturers recommendations. @Danny Scully , @Steamhead , @ChrisJ you guys witness this?

Steamhead

Noted.