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Venting added to 120 year old two pipe steam system

2

Comments

  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    I installed the place to add chemicals but have not used it yet. What is a skim port?
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,796
    Did you try contacting @gerry gill ?
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    No I did not try to contact Gerry. I was hoping the contractor that installed it would step up. Is there a professional guild I could contact before I start a claim with BBB?
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    I contacted Gerry and he is too busy but did suggest I put suggested controls on main. Which or what is the main? Pipe out of boiler? How do I add there?
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,525
    Not surprised that @gerry gill is too busy. It's that time of year.

    Putting the controls on the main -- the big pipe coming out of the top of the boiler -- would be ideal. It would also be difficult. However, you can install a vapourstat on the same pigtail as the pressuretrol: take the pressuretrol off and add a T with the run of the T horizontal. Two nipples, one out of each side, then two 90s turned up, one at each end, then put the pressuretrol back on one of them and the vapourstat on the other one and wire them in series. A bit Heath Robinson, but there is room there to do it. Then set the vapourstat to cut out at 12 ounces and set the differential to 6 ounces. That should work for a start, and may help the vents. May not, too. They don't like the pressure your system has been reaching. So..,

    Replace every vent with a Gorton #2 or a Barnes & Jones Big Mouth.

    Both of these things your plumber should be able to do. Be sure, though, that he gets the vapourstat and pressuretrol wired in series! That's important!

    Then with the system running, go around and check the traps. After it has been running for half an hour or so, the radiators should all be warm -- maybe not all the way across, but at least part way. If any of them are cold, either the valve is turned off (possible -- check that!) or the trap is failed shut. If you find a radiator which is hot all the way across, check the outlet pipe. That may be warm -- may be even quite hot, like hot water pipe hot, but shouldn't be steam hot (compare with the inlet). Be careful doing this -- a steam hot pipe can and will burn your hand. There are IR thermometers available at vaguely reasonable prices which do the job more safely! Anyway, if you find a radiator which has a steam hot outlet, that trap probably is failed open.

    Also, now that you have the new vents on and the pressure down to something reasonable, keep an eye on the water usage. It may be that just those two items will have made a significant difference.

    Whatever, come back and report, please!
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    Thanks I will work on it.
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    Looking at it the degree of difficulty to take the main apart now may not be worth it.
    Should I take the pressuretrol off and put a 90 on where it was then out to the T etc., leaving the pressure gauge where it is?
    I will do this since the contractor is not responding.
    The vents should be easy (just the two on mains not the middle one on return right?).
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    Oh which vent is preferable?
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    The Barnes is $75 and Gorton $91 on Amazon
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    I ordered the Vaporstat
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,525
    hrad said:

    Looking at it the degree of difficulty to take the main apart now may not be worth it.
    Should I take the pressuretrol off and put a 90 on where it was then out to the T etc., leaving the pressure gauge where it is?
    I will do this since the contractor is not responding.
    The vents should be easy (just the two on mains not the middle one on return right?).

    Please re-read my suggestion on how to mount the vapourstat -- and keep the pressuretrol as a backup. Leave the pressure gauge.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    Jamie, I just re read it. The pressureterol mounts straight up from the pigtail. Do you mean mount the T as it is on this page? I thought you said horizontal. What is the "run" of the T ? The two short parts at top? It will be higher than gauge, right?
    Thanks for your help!!! :):)
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,525
    hrad said:

    Jamie, I just re read it. The pressureterol mounts straight up from the pigtail. Do you mean mount the T as it is on this page? I thought you said horizontal. What is the "run" of the T ? The two short parts at top? It will be higher than gauge, right?
    Thanks for your help!!! :):)

    Right. The "run" is the crossbar of the capital T. That will put the two ends higher than the gauge -- which isn't a problem -- and you may find that it's easier to put things together if it's not square with the boiler.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    Thank you. All three vents should be changed? Only two on mains spit. Probably go with Barnes if just as good
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    Does it matter which is first in the wiring (series)? Sorry this is all new to me, thanks.
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
    The Barnes and Jones are nice vents.
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

    SWEIMilanD
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,525
    hrad said:

    Does it matter which is first in the wiring (series)? Sorry this is all new to me, thanks.

    No -- just so long as they are in series.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    Thanks. Do I need a new vent on the return?
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,525
    hrad said:

    Thanks. Do I need a new vent on the return?

    Maybe, maybe not. If it's working... if it's open while it is cool, you may be able to feel air coming out as the system heats up, but that's a difficult judgement to make. You'd be surprised. If in any doubt, I'd go ahead and replace it.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    The old vents have been removed. The new ones have holes in rear. Is that for a drain or should it be plugged?
    Why is gauge reading something? Can I raise it up to control height?
    There was a large wire going to original control from a box mounted on boiler and a small wire going to thermostat upstairs. Should I connect small wire to new control and then another out to thermostat?




  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    Never mind question about gauge. I now see it is at zero!
  • Sailah
    Sailah Member Posts: 826
    The new vent should not have the hole plugged, that's where it vents the air. Install with tailpiece pointed down. You'll need a 5/8" allen to thread tailpiece and union nut onto pipe. Then attach vent and tighten union nut.
    Peter Owens
    SteamIQ
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    I hope it was not a mistake to put white PVC elbows off vents.
    See attached pics for added controls. Is this right?



  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,254
    PVC elbows where? Picture of that please. No PVC for any steam piping. It will eventually melt and close your vent....if it is where I'm thinking you put it.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    The vent port on the Bigmouth vent should not have any piping attached to it. The only reason it is threaded is because that particular housing is also used in other (trap) applications.
    Sailah
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,787
    looks like Ptrol and Vaporstat may be turned up a bit,
    pics of each controller again, and the gage while steaming,
    you'll might want to dial down the pressure,
    known to beat dead horses
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,787
    nevermind,
    I just found my zoom button,
    looks better that I can see it
    known to beat dead horses
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    HELP Put things together as shown. Turned up thermostat and nothing happening. Saw light on low water level feeder for a bit. Water level looks right.

  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,495
    Try working the levers that operate the microswitches on the pressuretrol and vaporstat, they can get hung up. If that doesn't work use a meter across each safety to see if you can find the one tha'ts open.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    When they make contact damper starts opening. The pressuretrol does not seem to be pushing down on lever to make contact close.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    @hrad You don't use the middle terminal on the Vaporstat. Use the top (like you have) and the bottom terminal. Middle has no wires.
    ChrisJ
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    There can be no pressure in system. Water was replaced.
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    Thanks Fred, that may be what was wrong. Guess I did not read instructions correctly!
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    A lot of air out of new vents before boiler hot. Water high in site glass. No pressure on gauge.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,525
    hrad said:

    A lot of air out of new vents before boiler hot. Water high in site glass. No pressure on gauge.

    No surprises there. The question is, do you get steam?
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    edited October 2016
    Did you put a 0-3 PSI gauge on the boiler? You won't see any pressure on the 0-30PSI gauge. They just aren't sensitive enough to register pressure below a couple pounds but they are required by code. If you get a chance, put a 0-3PSI gauge on the system along with the old gauge. Even that gauge won't show much pressure until the boiler has run for a while and all the system vents are closed.
    The air being pushed out of the mains from the new vents is a good thing. That's what they should do.
    When the boiler is idle, check the sight glass and lower the water level if it is still on the high side.
    Here is the gauge most of us use:
    http://www.valworx.com/product/low-pressure-gauge-25-0-3-psi
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    Thanks! :)
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    Hmm I wonder if my 120 year old one will fit? :)
  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    Took off both dirt caps/legs and put STEAM-X in boiler. Put low pressure gauge on.

  • hrad
    hrad Member Posts: 55
    Hmmmm gauge looks like it is reading pressure? Just put on.

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