Effect of replacing windows on heating

Paul48

I've never heard of dipping cedar in creosote. I did a lot of roofing as a kid, and ate quite a few roofs. Thankfully, none with creosote.

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

The house in the pics I posted was built by my grandparents. The original roof was cedar shakes dipped in creosote. It lasted over 30 years under the eternal shade of two mighty oaks. Moss being its demise.

Would have hatted being the roofer on that.

The house in my pictures couldn't have been built by my grandparents because they weren't born yet. Nor were my great grandparents or my great great grand parents.

Fred

Cedar has natural oils that inhibit rot and pests. Dipping them in Creosote probably did nothing extra to preserve them (probably didn't hurt them either but not necessary). There are cedar roofs that are 80 to 100 years old. Like slate and clay tiles, the pitch of the roof is critical to how long they last. Shallow pitch tends to not shed water as quickly as steeper roofs. That moisture will kill them every time.

Gordy

Fred said:

Cedar has natural oils that inhibit rot and pests. Dipping them in Creosote probably did nothing extra to preserve them (probably didn't hurt them either but not necessary). There are cedar roofs that are 80 to 100 years old. Like slate and clay tiles, the pitch of the roof is critical to how long they last. Shallow pitch tends to not shed water as quickly as steeper roofs. That moisture will kill them every time.

Yes cedar has natural oils as you say. Shade kills cedar shakes. As does moss. The creosote was a little extra. Shade prevents quick drying of the roof. 80-100 years that's a fallacy, maybe in direct sun in a non snow belt state with thick shakes. These were not the thick shakes. The roof is a 6/12 not steep, but not shallow either.

Gordy

Apparently the old boys were not out of their mind since you can buy treated wood shingles today.
http://www.cedarbureau.org/cms-assets/images/170372.frequently-asked-questions.png

ChrisJ

I think this house is 9/12. Was real nice when we had ice and snow build up. The steeper roof didn't mind the weight at all.

BobC

My 1918 house has 2x5 roof rafters but that old fir is like iron. A couple of years age we had 114" of snow in under 60 days. I had 4 ft of snow on the south roof, never heard a creak out of the roof.

I did pull as much snow off the roof as I could reach from the ladder to try and limit the ice damming.

Bob

Fred

Gordy said:

Fred said:

Cedar has natural oils that inhibit rot and pests. Dipping them in Creosote probably did nothing extra to preserve them (probably didn't hurt them either but not necessary). There are cedar roofs that are 80 to 100 years old. Like slate and clay tiles, the pitch of the roof is critical to how long they last. Shallow pitch tends to not shed water as quickly as steeper roofs. That moisture will kill them every time.

Yes cedar has natural oils as you say. Shade kills cedar shakes. As does moss. The creosote was a little extra. Shade prevents quick drying of the roof. 80-100 years that's a fallacy, maybe in direct sun in a non snow belt state with thick shakes. These were not the thick shakes. The roof is a 6/12 not steep, but not shallow either.

6/12 is a decent pitch. Yes, I'm talking cedar shingles outside of snow belt states. I'm in an Historic District and we still have a couple early 1900's houses with the original cedar shake shingles on them. They are about at the end of their life though. One house just replaced theirs a couple years ago. I agree, shade kills a cedar roof. It also kills an asphalt roof. You would be amazed (or maybe not) at how many houses we have in this area where some half a** roofer laid fiberglass or asphalt shingle right over the old cedar shakes. Makes for a very ripply roof. Just about all of the cedar and/or tile roofs in this part of the country only have furring strips spaced about 4" to 6" across the roof rafters, no sheeting at all so these cheap overlays use the old cedar shingle to act like sheeting. Looks lousy. Slate roofs are fully sheeted, for obvious reasons.

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

Gordy said:

The house in the pics I posted was built by my grandparents. The original roof was cedar shakes dipped in creosote. It lasted over 30 years under the eternal shade of two mighty oaks. Moss being its demise.

Would have hatted being the roofer on that.

The house in my pictures couldn't have been built by my grandparents because they weren't born yet. Nor were my great grandparents or my great great grand parents.

That's to bad you could have asked the jack leg why he put a window in like that.

Gordy

Fred said:

Gordy said:

Fred said:

Cedar has natural oils that inhibit rot and pests. Dipping them in Creosote probably did nothing extra to preserve them (probably didn't hurt them either but not necessary). There are cedar roofs that are 80 to 100 years old. Like slate and clay tiles, the pitch of the roof is critical to how long they last. Shallow pitch tends to not shed water as quickly as steeper roofs. That moisture will kill them every time.

Yes cedar has natural oils as you say. Shade kills cedar shakes. As does moss. The creosote was a little extra. Shade prevents quick drying of the roof. 80-100 years that's a fallacy, maybe in direct sun in a non snow belt state with thick shakes. These were not the thick shakes. The roof is a 6/12 not steep, but not shallow either.

6/12 is a decent pitch. Yes, I'm talking cedar shingles outside of snow belt states. I'm in an Historic District and we still have a couple early 1900's houses with the original cedar shake shingles on them. They are about at the end of their life though. One house just replaced theirs a couple years ago. I agree, shade kills a cedar roof. It also kills an asphalt roof. You would be amazed (or maybe not) at how many houses we have in this area where some half a** roofer laid fiberglass or asphalt shingle right over the old cedar shakes. Makes for a very ripply roof. Just about all of the cedar and/or tile roofs in this part of the country only have furring strips spaced about 4" to 6" across the roof rafters, no sheeting at all so these cheap overlays use the old cedar shingle to act like sheeting. Looks lousy. Slate roofs are fully sheeted, for obvious reasons.

Actually the spaced furring 1x was to allow shakes to ventilate, and breath.

Yeah we they don't overlay an existing cedar roof around these parts.

Quality of the cedar is crucial also. The heart of the tree gives the highest oil content.

Want a wood roof to last 80 years cypress. Most deffinetly.

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

ChrisJ said:

Gordy said:

The house in the pics I posted was built by my grandparents. The original roof was cedar shakes dipped in creosote. It lasted over 30 years under the eternal shade of two mighty oaks. Moss being its demise.

Would have hatted being the roofer on that.

The house in my pictures couldn't have been built by my grandparents because they weren't born yet. Nor were my great grandparents or my great great grand parents.

That's to bad you could have asked the jack leg why he put a window in like that.

Well,

Based on the tools that were found in the crawlspace, I'm going to assume that unlike your grandparents that bought their windows, the "jack leg" that built this house, also built the windows on site. They're all slightly different but you can tell the same person built them.

The same "jack leg" that dug the basement by hand and built all of the field stone foundations and built the 1000 gallon cistern under the kitchen floor.

Yanno, back when men were men.

Gordy

8/12 is border line walkable for some. But it was done right. How many layers plays into the tear off costs.

My house, and rental were 72 square. I won't make you feel to bad. 2k more than your 17 with architectural grade 35 year.

Thought about rubber slate. At the time 200 a square with only a 50 year warranty, and two colors. I thought 170 more a square, and only 15 more years of warranty nope.

BobC

My sister owned a house built in the mid 1860's, while doing some demo we found a newspaper with an article about the hunt for John Wilkes Booth, it fell apart as soon as I tried to pick it up.

There was one window in the original kitchen that was 1.5" out of square, must have been a three rum lunch for the carpenter that day. The windows were all built on site. I cut a new dado and squared off the frame with window in place so we could install a replacement window in it. These windows were 2 over 2 like Chris's and had zero redeeming qualities.

Bob

Gordy

No new plywood one layer tear off. And I don't roof. Not because I can't, but because I hate it. Especially when tearing off.

The old roof was when fiberglass shingles came out. It replaced the original cedar roof under grandparents ownership. The shingles were like walking on potatoe chips.

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

Gordy said:

ChrisJ said:

Gordy said:

The house in the pics I posted was built by my grandparents. The original roof was cedar shakes dipped in creosote. It lasted over 30 years under the eternal shade of two mighty oaks. Moss being its demise.

Would have hatted being the roofer on that.

The house in my pictures couldn't have been built by my grandparents because they weren't born yet. Nor were my great grandparents or my great great grand parents.

That's to bad you could have asked the jack leg why he put a window in like that.

Well,

Based on the tools that were found in the crawlspace, I'm going to assume that unlike your grandparents that bought their windows, the "jack leg" that built this house, also built the windows on site. They're all slightly different but you can tell the same person built them.

The same "jack leg" that dug the basement by hand and built all of the field stone foundations and built the 1000 gallon cistern under the kitchen floor.

Yanno, back when men were men.

You do know what a jack leg is right?

Gordy

Hatterasguy said:

72 squares to tear off?

New plywood?

New 35 year shingles?

$10K?

Must have been done in 1990 or before..............and even at that time, the materials had to be $5K. Back then you could get them to rip off and put down a square for $70. But, the plywood problem on the furring strips................

My materials were about $3K in 2001 (including the plywood and the ice and water shield and the paper and the flashing).

That was 139 bucks a square materials, and labor. 02 and 04 were the years.

Gordy

My moms roof was 25 square. 8/12 Hip roof one layer tear off 11k last year. Done in two days.

Paul48

I had a friend do my roof. It's a walkable 18 square, and had 2 asphalt over wood shingles. He put both his crews on my roof( 18 men) . They stripped it, sheeted it, and shingled it, in 4 hours. The only evidence I ever found that showed they were here was a partial nail coil in my front hedge. He charged me $6500. He gets his shingles and plywood by the trailer load.

Paul48

I slowed em down. I had them remove Yankee gutters, which meant replacing fascia. I supplied the ice and water shield for the lower sloped additions, and they covered those completely. He runs a top-notch business.

ChrisJ

Gordy yes I do. My issue with that is I'm not going to disrespect someone that did the best they could in a time long before codes and pre-made goods just trying to build a home for his family.

The house is still here. He did a lot better than many.

Do the windows suck? Absolutely. But they let a ton of light in and open to let air through and I promise as bad as they are they're a whole lot better in the winter than a hole in the wall.

Let's be honest.
He made 26 windows that overall do function and do their job even 150 years later. Let's see how many modern contractors can build windows from scratch and this guy was just a diyer

Gordy when you build a house yourself without any prefabricated stuff or power tools and dig a basement by hand field stone foundation and all you can call the guy a jack leg. Until then........ my hat is off to the guys of those days imperfect and all.

Remember they didn't even have toilet paper.

Gordy

I did not disrespect anyone Chris. A jack leg is someone who can perform various trades. They may not be top notch to any specific profession except their own. Those were the times.

Paul48

@Gordy

How many sq/ft under that 45 square roof Gordy? I did an apartment building with 45 squares of single-membrane, and I know how big that was.

ChrisJ

By definition jack leg means an incompetent, unskillful, or dishonest person.

Perhaps it's meaning differs from person to person or from area to area.

ttekushan_3

Referencing the photos of your window restoration @Gordy, I think that's about the best glazing putty job I've ever seen in my life.

My work on steel windows never looks quite as good as your work there, particularly from 2nd floor on up. I just make sure that none of the exterior putty/paint line can be seen from the inside. Nothing like an accumulation of big sloppy old paint jobs to make a window appear the perfect candidate for replacement. Present company excluded, of course.

Gordy

Paul48 said:

@Gordy

How many sq/ft under that 45 square roof Gordy? I did an apartment building with 45 squares of single-membrane, and I know how big that was.

45 ???

25 my error Paul.

You would not believe how she got her new roof either...

Gordy

ttekushan said:

Referencing the photos of your window restoration @Gordy, I think that's about the best glazing putty job I've ever seen in my life.



My work on steel windows never looks quite as good as your work there, particularly from 2nd floor on up. I just make sure that none of the exterior putty/paint line can be seen from the inside. Nothing like an accumulation of big sloppy old paint jobs to make a window appear the perfect candidate for replacement. Present company excluded, of course.

Thank you, there was a learning curve as you know. What worked well for me was kneading the glazing soft. Put a ball in the palm of my hand, and jam it in all the way around. Then strike, and trim. Makes a mess of the glass but worked the best for me. What sucks is the cure time before painting. 2 weeks. I skipped brushing linseed oil on the wood. To facilitate faster cure. Linseed oil helps prevent the wood from drying out the glazing compound over time.

It can actually be fun once you master it. Before that I had some rough vocabulary.

Paul48

@Gordy

I just looked at the pictures of your windows. What I really want to know, is.......how did you get the U-Haul in your living room?